Oracle vs Pyramid which one to get?

harusame

Warlord
Joined
Dec 9, 2006
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Oracle: free tech caste sytem, and next GP lightbulb Theology for sistine chapel

Pyramid: representation/universal suffrage without teching to constitution/democracy

if you have 3 cities at early game, 1st city build parthenon, 2nd city keeps unit production, so which would you build in your 3rd city?
 
You can easily get both, here's how:

1. Research Pottery & Bronze Working.
2. Build Oracle.
3. Take Metal Casting as free tech.
4. Whip/Chop forge (preferably in 2nd city)
5. Hire engineer specialist.
6. Do other stuff for 30 turns.
7. Imhotep (Great Engineer) born.
8. Rush Pyramids. :cooool:

This works reliably up to Monarch. On higher levels? Well...probably best to just build a massive army, while waiting for your neighbor to build the 'Mids. You know what to do next...
 
It is suicide to waste production on a bad wonder like the parthenon on immortal/deity. The oracle and pyramids are soooo much better that there is no reason to build Parthenon instead of one of them.

the original idea to get parthenon is actually for early Great artist
the leader is philosophical/organized (Mao), the idea is to boost GA birth early
 
the original idea to get parthenon is actually for early Great artist
the leader is philosophical/organized (Mao), the idea is to boost GA birth early
Why would you want an early Great Artist? Any other great person, and I could see early application. But a great artist?!? How could one early great artist posisbly be worth the hammer cost of the parthenon?

Even if you still want a great artist early, you're probably better off getting to literature and drama ASAP and building the national epic and maybe a theater.

Your original question is just silly when asked on its own without context or long-term goals. But, if you are intent on producing a great artist, then you could probably build the oracle to grab alphabet. After alphabet, either drama or literature are comparatively quick techs which open up the opportunity for GA points. I don't see how pyramids would fit in with anything you've described so far. I would seriously recomend against the parthenon unless you find yourself with nearby marble and a desire to run specialists across multiple cities for most of the early game. You appear to have a severe case of wonder-itis. Don't build them just for the hell of it. Build them because they are an integral part of your strategy. If you can't decide how a wonder fits into your strategy, don't build it!

And one last thing... How can you possibly compare the oracle and the pyramids? One is a huge investment. The other is quite reasonable with just a few additional chops. One can be built in any city with nearby trees. The other, absent stone, must certainly be built in your capital. One gives a one-time only bonus upon completion. The other has a lasting effect throughout the game for whoever owns it. Honestly, you could scarcely ask for a comparison of two more disparate things.
 
Build the Oracle, capture the Pyramids. Not the other way around.

peace,
lilnev
 
Why would you want an early Great Artist? Any other great person, and I could see early application. But a great artist?!? How could one early great artist posisbly be worth the hammer cost of the parthenon?

Even if you still want a great artist early, you're probably better off getting to literature and drama ASAP and building the national epic and maybe a theater.

Your original question is just silly when asked on its own without context or long-term goals. But, if you are intent on producing a great artist, then you could probably build the oracle to grab alphabet. After alphabet, either drama or literature are comparatively quick techs which open up the opportunity for GA points. I don't see how pyramids would fit in with anything you've described so far. I would seriously recomend against the parthenon unless you find yourself with nearby marble and a desire to run specialists across multiple cities for most of the early game. You appear to have a severe case of wonder-itis. Don't build them just for the hell of it. Build them because they are an integral part of your strategy. If you can't decide how a wonder fits into your strategy, don't build it!

And one last thing... How can you possibly compare the oracle and the pyramids? One is a huge investment. The other is quite reasonable with just a few additional chops. One can be built in any city with nearby trees. The other, absent stone, must certainly be built in your capital. One gives a one-time only bonus upon completion. The other has a lasting effect throughout the game for whoever owns it. Honestly, you could scarcely ask for a comparison of two more disparate things.
it's kinda obvious that my goal is a cultural victory isnt it?
wonder-itis? lol i usually dont build other wonders except oracle, pyramid, sistine chapel or parthenon, is that too many? lol
the map is http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=197903&highlight=deity+challenge

it has access to stone AND marble
as well as copper for cathedrals

my consideration is:
parthenon: as i stated above, early GA and boost GA birth rate
pyramid: i dont have to tech to democracy for universal suffrage later
oracle: for opening sistine chapel
as well, oracle/pyramid will later dilute GA genepool. Considering with parthenon+sistine chapel, one can have 2 GA-farm cities


the plan is simple, tech to music and liberalism, after then switch completely to culture and GA birth, im running SE obviously at deity
this is my first try on deity, usually i play either emperor or immortal (with my best leader saladin/mansa)
 
it's kinda obvious that my goal is a cultural victory isnt it?
From the title of the thread and the first couple posts, no. You hinted at it by saying you wanted a great artist. But you said you wanted a quick great artist. The point of a cultural victory is usually not a single quick great artist but rather a sustained stream of many great artists.

In general, the parthenon just doesn't seem like as big a help to that end as other wonders available. This is all speaking generally, which you seemed to be doing. If, on the other hand, you're talking about a specific map (where you have access to stone and marble, on deity :eek: ), you probably should have said so at the beginning.

You'll have to excuse the wonder-itis assessment, but it does appear as if you're really focusing quite a bit on them. If you only build the 4 you mentioned, fine (though I still think it's a bit excessive). But, you must admit, mentioning 4 different wonders in a 3 line post does come off as a bit wonder-focused. Also, even building 2 wonders when you only have three cities is a bit over-the-top. Any particular reason why you can't be building another settler in that third city?

Cultural victories aren't my thing, though. I know the ins and outs, and used to be pretty good, but haven't gone for one in a very long while as I found them uninteresting. As such, I suppose I should recuse my self from this conversation.
 
it's kinda obvious that my goal is a cultural victory isnt it?

I gotta agree I didnt see it either. And Ive used an early ga as a devestating culture bomb in many games that I wasnt going for cultural wins...so wanting an early ga doesnt automatically mean you want a cultural win. I used to play my noble games rushing for music so I could get that free great artist and flip a city. That said, I think it might actually be more help to get a different kind of great person first. The first that springs to mind is a prophet for shrines and to lightbulb theocracy (christianity), second is ge to rush a wonder that would help you win a cultural win...like Sistine Chapel or Norte Dame.

If your goal is quick ga's, look no further then caste system, and then think of wonders that would gel with that civic...like pyramids (representation), hanging garders (extra health and food), norte dame (extra happiness), sistine chapel definately (extra culture per specialist), and yes, parthenon (extra gp).
 
well
in immortal, i never be able to get music first, because AI always faster than me. But i always go to music as fast as i can for cathedrals

as well as mathematic (hanging garden), we can forget about it

and i think we dont need notre dame, because culture produces happiness

basically, i need pyramid only to buy temples later
so the consideration is 50% GA or ability to buy temple?

representation is nice, but as i stated, happiness plays only minor role before i can adjust culture
extra science is not really necessary, because im gonna lightbulb liberalism, so the research will stop there


thanks in advanced
 
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