Organised - A mini-study

[KrikkitTwo]

actualy i was thinkging to change financial trait in a way: if Tile produce 3 commerce, it gets +1..
what do you think? If its too much of a nerf, there cud be exceptions on sime tiles, with resources lets say, that still get +1 commerce with 2 on it..

Actually I'd say +1 per trade route might be better

 

[Heroes]

One factor to consider: Inflation = a given percentage (determined by number of turns) * (city maintenance + civic upkeep). Therefore, if you save 1/2 civic upkeep by being organized, you also save some part of inflation. The percentage goes up with number of turns, so this advantage becomes more and more significant.

 

[GreenMonkey]

Seems like Organized would be better in tough war situations...like when your countryside is being pillaged. Because a lot of times you need improvements to get the beneficial from Financial, whereas Organized will help even if you are pinned inside your walls defending.

 

[WoundedKnight]

I decided last night to sit down and go through a pile of save games to analyse the difference between Financial and Organised. I did this because everyone is alway posting about how terrible Organised is for saving money and that Financial is strictly better. It wasn't that I didn't believe these people it is just that the extent to which their Financial trait was better than Organised seemed exagerated.

I generally found that Financial did make a bigger impact in that it would generate 10-80% more COMMERCE than Organised saved in GOLD. I highlight them as more commerce can be enhanced where as gold is gold and nothing else. So suprise suprise being financial makes you more money (hence the name). I feel that its comes down to the building discounts that make these two traits close to equal. I rarely build banks as I devote as little commerce to gold as possible most of the game and always have something better to build. On the other hand I build courthouses all of the time.

The interesting thing was that if Organised gave a 100% discount (I have heard references to this number previously) then it would have in all cases more GOLD than COMMERCE. This might make Organised a bit too powerful when combined with its building discounts.

For those who are intested I ran though games from all different eras and the biggest difference was in the modern era when peaceful. This is when financial really took off.

For any test to be valid or interpretable, your civic choices must be enumerated. The test would be more interesting and relevant if you would post specific numbers for both organized and financial from different eras as well as your specific civic choices at different points in time. You do not appear to have posted anywhere what your civic choices were.

While some factors -- such as inflation -- increase at a fixed rate throughout the game, civic upkeep costs vary widely depending not only on the number of cities, but on specific civic choices. Many of the best civics have little or no upkeep, while others are quite expensive.

My own tests suggest that financial still beats organized as long as the player utilizes a rational strategy for building improvements in almost every era even when the player chooses expensive civics, and this advantage is magnified considerably when no or low-maintenance civics are chosen. Nevertheless, if you are posting a thread about your test results, it would be nice to include some hard financial and upkeep data and specifics about civic choices. Otherwise the "tests" described here offer nothing more than a vague gestalt about the organized trait that permeates dozens of other threads on the topic.

-WK

 

[local]

im playing tokagawa on monarch and I just conquering my neighbours with mass samurais + some pikes, pults, war elephants... Samurais are pretty efective, even tho it seems they come very late cuz u need all that nasty techs (civil service, machinery).

Tokgawa is agr/org... Its a combo to try, since war civics are they expensive ones (vassalage, theocracy... ) and since I am organized, I need to use expensive civics as much as possible.. Even tho , one might seem worse then the cheaper ones, you can still use the expensive and pull out of them whats best. So theocracy and vassalage give me super units for conquering, after having big empire you need corthouse/forbiden palace, which might lower your costs pretty much faster..
In was I was paying about 22gold for civics (instead of 44)
and inflation was 30%, so acounted together I was paying 28 gold less.. + faster lowering cost with courthouses..

But still, to make best use of org trait you really need to play archipelage or sth, since i have only few coastal cities, and im not making adv. out of lighthouses.

still think organized needs a little buff.. maybe covering 25% of the city maintaince, since they are "organized" .. But i wudnt change much these traits cos of a butterfly effect..

But thing is , Tokagawa has Samurais, and i wanted them, so i get this organized trait with it and make sth out of it.

overall , after playing a bit with both traits, still think in overall financial > organized.. But its not easy to say such things since it depends on style of the game, what vic you wanna achieve, etc..If your aiming for no cost civics most of the game(in other words- you dont want to have single war in a game)... then org might just suck

financial seem to work more in peacefull games, while organized in oposite

 

[Phoenix_56721]

im playing tokagawa on monarch and I just conquering my neighbours with mass samurais + some pikes, pults, war elephants... Samurais are pretty efective, even tho it seems they come very late cuz u need all that nasty techs (civil service, machinery).

Tokgawa is agr/org... Its a combo to try, since war civics are they expensive ones (vassalage, theocracy... ) and since I am organized, I need to use expensive civics as much as possible.. Even tho , one might seem worse then the cheaper ones, you can still use the expensive and pull out of them whats best. So theocracy and vassalage give me super units for conquering, after having big empire you need corthouse/forbiden palace, which might lower your costs pretty much faster..
In was I was paying about 22gold for civics (instead of 44)
and inflation was 30%, so acounted together I was paying 28 gold less.. + faster lowering cost with courthouses..

But still, to make best use of org trait you really need to play archipelage or sth, since i have only few coastal cities, and im not making adv. out of lighthouses.

still think organized needs a little buff.. maybe covering 25% of the city maintaince, since they are "organized" .. But i wudnt change much these traits cos of a butterfly effect..

But thing is , Tokagawa has Samurais, and i wanted them, so i get this organized trait with it and make sth out of it.

overall , after playing a bit with both traits, still think in overall financial > organized.. But its not easy to say such things since it depends on style of the game, what vic you wanna achieve, etc..If your aiming for no cost civics most of the game(in other words- you dont want to have single war in a game)... then org might just suck

financial seem to work more in peacefull games, while organized in oposite

I agree that the samurai come to late in the game, especially since the Romans get their UU with the same strength after iron working. I think Samurai should be available after machinery imo, but never the less Japan is a great Civ to play and is for now my favorite!