Amenhotep7
Spartiate
I say it's fine the way it is, Xen.
But if you really want the rest of the Persian are, then I'll try my best.
But if you really want the rest of the Persian are, then I'll try my best.
Peloponnesian War Scenario Development Thread
- Thread starter Amenhotep7
- Start date
if the the rest of Persia isnt filled, it wil lbecoe a patch work of of cities for the persian, and ATHENIAN empires- and considering I named all the cities by hand except Athens (some one will have to add all those towns to its city list, and I dont wanna do it) youll behaing dozens of :new Athen, Athens 2, new Athens 2... ect...
besides, the Persians need to be rich- at the moment the Athenian empire is bigger the persia IIRC, and almost definatelly going to be making more money...
besides, the Persians need to be rich- at the moment the Athenian empire is bigger the persia IIRC, and almost definatelly going to be making more money...
Pangur Bán
Deconstructed
AH...you don't want to know 
I'll leave it 'till nearer the time of release, then I'll comment.
Did you learn a lot about classical geography while making it?
I'll leave it 'till nearer the time of release, then I'll comment.
Did you learn a lot about classical geography while making it?
Originally posted by calgacus
AH...you don't want to know
I'll leave it 'till nearer the time of release, then I'll comment.
Did you learn a lot about classical geography while making it?
tell me, i already know you dont like the fact that non major civs are in, but I'm talking about the cities I picked to go in the areas.
and yes I did, here are two of the best maps i used- I have used others, like in a classical atlas I have, and doing various searches for maps of Carthaginian territory, and the cities in Cyrenica...
for greece-
http://www.slitherine.co.uk/spartan/images/GCMap.jpg
for italy-
http://www.slitherine.co.uk/Legion/map_1.htm
youll note that I merged several regions, just because it-
A)made sense, like merging all the Thracian regions into one uber-Thracia
or
B)there just wasnt enough room to do anything else, the cituation around Boetia was espicially bad in this respect
A)made sense, like merging all the Thracian regions into one uber-Thracia
or
B)there just wasnt enough room to do anything else, the cituation around Boetia was espicially bad in this respect
Pangur Bán
Deconstructed
Far too many cities. Marathon wasn't an extensively occupied settelment. Athens did not have access to the sea, except through the double ports Piraeus and Phaleron. Corinth and Boeotia were both members of the Peloponesian League, and powerful independent states. (I realise that separating Corinth might pose strategic problems though).
(S)Egesta, the town in Sicily that started the Sicilian expedition, isn't there. Eion isn't there and should be; Pella wasn't founded until the 4th century by king Archelaus. Aegae/Aigai/Vergina was the ancient capital.
Nicomedia (264 BC) and Nicaea (316 BC) are much later cities.
Those are a few things. I have general problems, as you know with the map and proliferation of civs.
It's terrific that you did all that work though
I just don't like the general set-up. I'll let you guys work on it, and I'll judge the end product as an outsider.
(S)Egesta, the town in Sicily that started the Sicilian expedition, isn't there. Eion isn't there and should be; Pella wasn't founded until the 4th century by king Archelaus. Aegae/Aigai/Vergina was the ancient capital.
Nicomedia (264 BC) and Nicaea (316 BC) are much later cities.
Those are a few things. I have general problems, as you know with the map and proliferation of civs.
It's terrific that you did all that work though
I just don't like the general set-up. I'll let you guys work on it, and I'll judge the end product as an outsider. and its those things- like the cites you mentioned that I need- this is a FIRST run on the map- with out the points that you mentioned, the final thin would have those mistakes 
now then, here is what i need-
A)where the hell would Aegae/Aigai/Vergina on there?
B)I need substitute cities for Nicaea, and Nicomedia
C)where the hell is Eion, and Segesta too...
as for the problems with Attica- look at the territory your self, ther isnt enough room for all the cities, like Pireus, and Phaleron- and all things concidered, I think the cites located in the long wall sof Athens (which, if IIRC, just happend to be Athens,Pireaus, Phaleron, and one other town) call all be rolled into one city
as for Marathon- it was ther in Amenhoteps rough sktch of some the greek territories, and while I didnt liek at first, once I played the middle ages conquest in C3C, i realized that, like Constantinople, a city located so clost to the capital can be cool- and Marathon is the best town in Attica to that with
now then, here is what i need-
A)where the hell would Aegae/Aigai/Vergina on there?
B)I need substitute cities for Nicaea, and Nicomedia
C)where the hell is Eion, and Segesta too...
as for the problems with Attica- look at the territory your self, ther isnt enough room for all the cities, like Pireus, and Phaleron- and all things concidered, I think the cites located in the long wall sof Athens (which, if IIRC, just happend to be Athens,Pireaus, Phaleron, and one other town) call all be rolled into one city
as for Marathon- it was ther in Amenhoteps rough sktch of some the greek territories, and while I didnt liek at first, once I played the middle ages conquest in C3C, i realized that, like Constantinople, a city located so clost to the capital can be cool- and Marathon is the best town in Attica to that with
Pangur Bán
Deconstructed
Nicaea to Cius and Nicomedia to Astacus.
Well, that's a reason you should reconsider the map. If you want to choke it with cities. The map makes Spoletum and Stratopara more important than the Pireas.
Like I said, I'll see the end-product. Put Marathon there if you like
It's cool like you said. 
But is Decelea uncool or something?
Well, that's a reason you should reconsider the map. If you want to choke it with cities. The map makes Spoletum and Stratopara more important than the Pireas.
Like I said, I'll see the end-product. Put Marathon there if you like
It's cool like you said. But is Decelea uncool or something?
Originally posted by calgacus
Nicaea to Cius and Nicomedia to Astacus.
Well, that's a reason you should reconsider the map. If you want to choke it with cities. The map makes Spoletum and Stratopara more important than the Pireas.
Like I said, I'll see the end-product. Put Marathon there if you like
again, it all a consideration of what room I have to work with, iderally, I could have all attica on the map, but in this case, it can only be represent by two cities- Athens, and Marathon- not because marathon is more a major city (but I dont think it was a back water either) but because that is simply the only well known town that goes there- or would you liek me to replace AMrathon with Decelea,Phyle,Rhammus, or Oropus, all of which most non-greeks, and those non educated in classical geography would not even have a clue as there existence...
as for Stratpara- I needed thracian cities, and there more the enough room for it
Pangur Bán
Deconstructed
Well, there you go.
Do what you want Xen. I would have thought Decelea would be better, because , on the one hand, it had astronimical importance in the war, and , on the other hand, marathon was irrelevant.
But, I hadn't thought about name-fame.
Good luck
Do what you want Xen. I would have thought Decelea would be better, because , on the one hand, it had astronimical importance in the war, and , on the other hand, marathon was irrelevant.
But, I hadn't thought about name-fame.
Good luck
_Philospher_
Balancing the cranium
I would of prefered Decelea, but I'm an ancient greek nerd. For the sake of those who don't know much about Greece I agree with keeping Marathon.
For the sake of those who don't know much about Greece I agree with keeping Marathon.Mongoloid Cow
Great Khan
Marathon was not important. One of the only reasons it's only mentioned today is because Herodotus of Halicarnassus made a big deal about nothing (I've read the Persian perspective which is far more down to earth and truthful). Decelea would be a good replacement - I've at least heard of that one before.
Also on the minimap on page 31 (! !!!) it seems that Athens is far too big in comparison to Sparta. It also looks like you left out Daskyleion from the Persians - IMO put it in (but my eyes may need checking).
Anyway I might be ahted for saying this but the map is not that good for this scenario. It needs to be cropped IMO at these places:
- horizontally just below Crete.
- horizontally just above Macedonia.
- vertically just left of Syracuse.
- vertically just right of the eastern-most light-blue city.
Also on the minimap on page 31 (!
!!!) it seems that Athens is far too big in comparison to Sparta. It also looks like you left out Daskyleion from the Persians - IMO put it in (but my eyes may need checking).Anyway I might be ahted for saying this but the map is not that good for this scenario. It needs to be cropped IMO at these places:
- horizontally just below Crete.
- horizontally just above Macedonia.
- vertically just left of Syracuse.
- vertically just right of the eastern-most light-blue city.
Mongoloid Cow
Great Khan
PS: Aegae would be somewhere nearby Edessa. I can't remember but Edessa could be Aegae.
Pangur Bán
Deconstructed
Edessa and aegae are different:
well you have to realize that the territory is tyile ownership this means seas, and oceans are included as well- most of the Athenian territory is two tile islands! and we all know how much they suck
any way, i know what you m,ean on spartan territory, but then i began to think of it like this
A)Sparta was leading an ALLIANCE to destroy Athenian imperialism, therefore, the player of spatra needs to make it an important goal to build an alliance- not an empire- to kick off Athens
B)the fact that Athens has so many of those little islands means that, like in real life, it will beAthens, and what ever other city in Attica, as well as the Ionian cotal cites that are punmping out troops,and warships, not to mention any civil improvements
C)I hear you gusy on the map, but, unless a new map surfeces, this is waht we have to work with, so why not make the best of it, and give the scenario as many differnt options as possible- after all, it will still have goals- namelly a point victory based on getting those VP locations- and we can esilly make the game to where its near impoosible to do when playing as a nation other then Athens, or Sparta
alos, where the hell is Daskyleion?
any way, i know what you m,ean on spartan territory, but then i began to think of it like this
A)Sparta was leading an ALLIANCE to destroy Athenian imperialism, therefore, the player of spatra needs to make it an important goal to build an alliance- not an empire- to kick off Athens
B)the fact that Athens has so many of those little islands means that, like in real life, it will beAthens, and what ever other city in Attica, as well as the Ionian cotal cites that are punmping out troops,and warships, not to mention any civil improvements
C)I hear you gusy on the map, but, unless a new map surfeces, this is waht we have to work with, so why not make the best of it, and give the scenario as many differnt options as possible- after all, it will still have goals- namelly a point victory based on getting those VP locations- and we can esilly make the game to where its near impoosible to do when playing as a nation other then Athens, or Sparta
alos, where the hell is Daskyleion?
Pangur Bán
Deconstructed
PS, you're unlikely to find a better map of ancient macedonia anywhere than that
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
Re: maps, I'll look for one of Achaemenid Anatolia when I get the time, but I know from experience that finding decent maps of the Achaemenid Empire is one CENSORED CENSORED to do.
Re: Aegae, I though we had agreed on it as the Macedonian capital long ago? In any case, it ought to be in; kill off one or two other cities if necessary.
Has anyone concocted a utility for cutting 'n pasting pieces of maps? If so, there might be an easy way to get rid of unwanted Thracians and Italics.
Re: Aegae, I though we had agreed on it as the Macedonian capital long ago? In any case, it ought to be in; kill off one or two other cities if necessary.
Has anyone concocted a utility for cutting 'n pasting pieces of maps? If so, there might be an easy way to get rid of unwanted Thracians and Italics.
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