Persian Immortals as Cavalry?!?

[Tibetan_Turtle]

Time out! Persian Immortals are infantry! So why are they listed on the site as cavalry?!

Of course, I should mention that the description never mentions that they are on horses, and instead only describes them as infantry, but the picture and animation are of cavalry. Is this a mistake, or are the game makers going to be changing history?

For those of you who have no idea what I'm talking about, just think of this: The Persian armies Alexander fought were almost entirely Immortals (infantry), and if they're not in the game...

 

[oxonian2001]

For those of you who have no idea what I'm talking about, just think of this: The Persian armies Alexander fought were almost entirely Immortals (infantry), and if they're not in the game...

Then Alexander will storm through Persia unopposed?

 

[The Great Apple]

I thought the immortals were the elite guard of one of the Persian big cheeses - and did ride horses...

I'm sure I read that somewhere on the forum here.

 

[Dracleath]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Immortals

They were heavy infantry, but later on Persia was known for its cataphracts so a cav unit isn't out of place for them, it just shouldn't really be called immortals.

 

[Alphidius]

That's right... The Persian Immortals were heavy infantry that was relied on during the Greco-Persian wars

 

[Ardeshir Shah]

The Sassanid dynasty in Persia (224-651 AD) had Immortals of its own, but unlike the Achaemenid unit they were elite cataphracts like Dracleath mentioned. In fact, the Fall of Rome scenario in C3C includes the mounted Immortals

Of course, this later unit doesn't play the same memorable role in history that the first Immortals did at Thermopylae, so it is an odd choice.

 

[Skirmisher]

If the Immortals were also heavy cavalry, why do they replace the chariot? Should they not replace the knight?

 

[dannyevilcat]

If the Immortals were also heavy cavalry, why do they replace the chariot? Should they not replace the knight?

Different eras.

 

[Skirmisher]

Wel, it could be argued that the Middle east entered the medieval era 500 years before Europe.

 

[troytheface]

they wanted to relive "numidean mercenaries" where they take a mounted unit and a infantry unit and switch them- so that fans can have something to think about.

 

[Mujadaddy]

Re: Alphidius' sig

One cannot prove a negative statement, ie, "I have never tasted fruit" <--prove that.

Moderator Action: Please don't threadjack. If you want to discuss signatures with him, please do it via the Private Message system.

 

[Dracleath]

Well both cases were instances of taking one unit used by a civ and using its name for another unit. Cataphract being the persian cavalry (though I guess it probably has another name in farsi) and sacred band being the appropriate carthaginian infantry.

 

[Alphidius]

Right, so the Cataphract is the Persian heavy cavalry & the Immortals are their heavy infantry. Well, we could mod this in when it comes out... I'll probably rename The Immortals to Cataphract for simplicity & make it UU over the Horsemen or Knights

Mujadaddy: I'm just quoting the blurbs from Sid Meier's Alpha Centuri... Relax, dude...

 

[Jecrell]

I think people are mainly upset because they want to be. Maybe those persian immortals looked cool in Civ III and they really want it to remain the same. Personally I think they look pretty cool -- it first struck me as akward -- but other than that I don't believe history is being ruined to have them in the game as they are.

 

[Yusaku Jon III]

Well, as I've been seeing things for the past several months, some people just want to pick nits. Consider our nits picked.

On the subject of the Immortals, I've often wondered how Darius and Xerxes got so many men to go such long distances as they did (Persia --> Greece --> Egypt --> Greece again). As an elite bodyguard unit for the Great King, it's likely that they did ride on horseback wherever his chariot went.

And speaking of nitting picks, I recall the Immortals UU back in Civ3 being a swordsman armed with a scymitar. But written articles describe them as being spearmen signified by having a golden apple on the butt end of their spear shafts -- hence the name of "apple bearer" being given to them. In Rise of Nations, this what we get, although they're also given a short-ranged attack like a sort of heavy javelineer. Now, that might've been more accurate.

Another thing to consider is that eastern armies were always more dependent on their archers and cavalry. You won't read much about their infantry outside of the Immortals in use during pre-Christian days.