"PLAN A" - Accept or Denounce? II

[Strider]

Originally posted by donsig


Plan A does not mean a city will get no improvements. The plan is for a fixed duration of 30 turns or so. During that period certian cities will be devoted to military production and in that regard they will get no improvements for the duration of the plan. Once the plan is complete we can reward these cities buy rushing some improvements. On the other hand, 72% of our cities will be building nothing but workers and improvements for 30 turns. Also since the plan calls for zero military spending there will be plenty of gold in the treasury to help our less productive cities get the improvements they need.

It is very sad that the debate over a good and sensible plan has been twisted and turned into a debate about total military production versus improving our cities!

Do you know how long 30 turns are? That is 3 turn chats..... 3 turn chats that are wasted on useless units! 3 turn chats that can raise are treasury even more! Increase are culture! Make are people smarter... Put a library in about every town! If we set every city that down not have a library on one...
We can greatly increase are culture in that period!

 

[Zarn]

I concur with this plan and have no problem with it. That is, if my opinion matters.

 

[Immortal]

30 turns is excessive to me.

 

[Strider]

Look at it this way:

28% for military production should hardly be enough to defend against a decated foe. They have the art of surprise... They can mass there units up in one area and take quite a few cities before are guys even get there. You are saying that if we have no military production than it will leave us even weaker against attack... well... consider this:

The AI has the element of surprise when it attacks. With the extra culture Plan A won't provide we can expand are bordors more. Allowing us to detect an attack easier.

Right now we have a badly developed road system. The workers we can Produce without Plan A can develop are road system more. Making us quicker to react against an attack.

Also the improvements we build without Plan A can increase are treasury. Allowing us to rush more units if the need arise's.

 

[FionnMcCumhall]

this plan only looks at the immediate future. We need a plan that looks to the far future where we can have our building period now and produce the necessary defensive units. If we can get marketplaces, banks and the stock exchange combined with a golden age we could turn out units and new improvemnts faster

 

[FionnMcCumhall]

i agree with strider we do need to expand our borders more and not by war like some think, it should be culturally. We could then detect attacks faster as strider said as well. A far seeing future plan is better than a immediate future plan

 

[Immortal]

It is very sad that the debate over a good and sensible plan has been twisted and turned

At least there is a debate, would you like it better if everyone simply posted "Whatever" or "..."?

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by Strider

Do you know how long 30 turns are? That is 3 turn chats..... 3 turn chats that are wasted on useless units! 3 turn chats that can raise are treasury even more! Increase are culture! Make are people smarter... Put a library in about every town! If we set every city that down not have a library on one...
We can greatly increase are culture in that period!

Yes, I know how long 30 turns is. It is 30 turns. The units produced would not be useless. We would use them to strike Russia or America to increase our nation's productivity. We would gain production over and above that invested in the units. There is a good chance that these units could win another war for us and bring enemy technologies into our hands for free. There is the chance that a great leader would be produced that might just allow us to build a great wonder. We decided long ago on a strategy to build our wonders using great leaders. Without wars we will get no leaders and no culture producing wonders of our own.

As for the specifics of Plan A, Every city listed in the plan already has a library - except Bavaria which is working on one now. It would be completed under Plan A. There are 12 cities nvolved in Plan A and six of them already have temples. Two already have universities and three more will be built under the plan. Four markets will be built in plan cities under the plan.

For crying out loud has anyone read this plan? You all cry and whine like babies and like babies what you say makes no sense!

 

[Immortal]

We cannot guarantee production in the result, with a couple bad battles for us and we may be in trouble. I would rather focus on marketplaces on the cities whihc lack them to set us up for democracy.

 

[Strider]

I do not remember anyone deciding that we are going to rely on a Great Leader (which happens to come very rarely) to increase are culture. Also productivity is only in ONE city. They are not combined into another city. So mainly it will help us by making us put more money into lux's hurting are cities shields during the war thus hurting us for a number of possibly useless cities that will do very little to help us. See no point in it.

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by Strider
I do not remember anyone deciding that we are going to rely on a Great Leader (which happens to come very rarely) to increase are culture. Also productivity is only in ONE city. They are not combined into another city. So mainly it will help us by making us put more money into lux's hurting are cities shields during the war thus hurting us for a number of possibly useless cities that will do very little to help us. See no point in it.

Here is one discussion that includes the wonder building using great leader strategy.

The poll resulting from that discussion.

I do not understand what you are saying about lux's. We can fight wars now with little worry of war weariness. We can even acquire a domestic source of silk if we go to war with Russia.

Russia owns a few cities near Kyoto which has our Forbidden Palace. Adding thwm to Fanatika would not be adding useless cities.

 

[FionnMcCumhall]

WE DONT NEED ANY MORE CITIES RIGHT NOW!

46 is enough right now!

 

[Strider]

Originally posted by FionnMcCumhall
WE DONT NEED ANY MORE CITIES RIGHT NOW!

Well that solved it.... I was worried about wasting a few notes posting against donsig. Rely on Fionn to come up with a one sentence come back. Oh well.

 

[Octavian X]

Luckily, I've missed the majority of the debate. Therefore, I will state I fully support 'Plan A' (though I admit a catchier name would have been cooler).

I hear the compliants, and agree our infastructure is suffering at the hands of our military. However, we have already chosen the path towards conquest, and as any expert Civ player would tell you, a change in strategy in the middle of a game would be devistating.

Also, Plan A enlists larger production cities for military production. We still have many smaller cities that can produce workers, libraries, universities, etc.

We MUST follow through with our plans to dominate the world. Vote YES for Plan A!

 

[Strider]

Originally posted by Octavian X
Luckily, I've missed the majority of the debate. Therefore, I will state I fully support 'Plan A' (though I admit a catchier name would have been cooler).

I hear the compliants, and agree our infastructure is suffering at the hands of our military. However, we have already chosen the path towards conquest, and as any expert Civ player would tell you, a change in strategy in the middle of a game would be devistating.

Also, Plan A enlists larger production cities for military production. We still have many smaller cities that can produce workers, libraries, universities, etc.

We MUST follow through with our plans to dominate the world. Vote YES for Plan A!

"It takes a smart person to know when to start, but an even smarter person to know when to stop." (heard that some where.... It's a revised addtion of an old quote)

Stopping would not hurt us at all!! Let the units in the current queue's to finish up.... Then move in banks, marketplace's, universities, libries! We could increase are treasury giving us enough gold to rush units if the need arise's. We need a time of peace. Vote yes to this plan is voting yes to using units, gold, and shields to take mere useless cities.

 

[Furry Spatula]

I support this plan. We are having all this talk about who to take out next, so we'll need some units to do that. It takes time to build those units aswell. Also, only one quarter (fine just over one quarter) of our cities will be building units. The rest can build workers and culture. I think it is a good idea.

These units are not useless. It is planning for the future. It is planning ahead to our next war. Also, units are never useless if you are surrounded by other countries. They can always be upgraded aswell.

I fully support this plan. We aren't playing on Chieften. If we don't stab someone in the back, they'll stab us in the back. We need these units. And our other cities will be producing workers and culture as stated above.

 

[Strider]

There shouldn't be a next war, much less units needed to have it. We've taken enough terrority.... Taking more would be useless. Wasting shields to build units that we throw into war and get killed all to take a few cities that will be useless to us. The American's will be useless to us.... Russia we can attack and get a good few cities, but not worth the effort.

We need a time of peace.... War does nothing but capture terrority. We have the terrority we need. So we have no more use of war.

 

[FionnMcCumhall]

Let it go Strider, we are wasting our breath by stateing the obvious. No amount of arguement is going to change people mind, im surprised we got 9 votes out of it but there again lies the problem. we will never change.

Once we have all governors in place, ill sit back and watch everything i am trying to work for go down in flames before i could even try to enact any internal policies. Cyc never consulted me on how i felt about this proposal, in fact no one did so we could come up with alternatives to this plan. We just vote for one without any other ideas in place. I shall still look over build queus to make sure we at least try to build improvemnts but the build period i want will never come.

 

[eyrei]

This thread has become more of a shouting match than a discussion. Please refrain from targetting your posts at other people.

 

[Cyc]

Quoting Zarn:
I concur with this plan and have no problem with it. That is, if my opinion matters.
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It's good to have you back, Zarn.