Planet VERY mad at me. How to calm it down now?

[Wolf Dreamer]

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The planet is upset with me. All of my bases have environmental damage points, even if I switch off all resource harvesting. That is, unclick every bit of the map where my citizens are working any resource at all.

Destroying my bore holes doesn't seem to make any difference.

The ocean level has risen, and I lost one base already, getting the message it was now submerged. A new volcano erupted somewhere as well.

The planet keeps sending an apparent never ending wave of attacks against me, fungus blooms appearing everywhere, and mind worms, spore launchers, and those flying things keep attacking my bases in overwhelming numbers, as well as trying to kill off all my terraformers and anything else outside of them.

I read in the Help file that a hybrid forest, when combined with a tree farm, is suppose to eliminate all ecological damage done by a base from terraforming. And yet, when I used my horde of energy credits to hurriedly get a tree forest, a hybrid forest, and even a centuari reserve, I still have ecological damage there. I click on any areas to assign citizens to harvest resources, and the ecological damage goes up. So obviously, those techs aren't working.

Is there any way to calm the planet down now, are is it possible I'm past the point of no return with it?

Things I did that apparently pissed it off to begin with.

1. Built a few bore holes here and there.
2. Established new bases spread out everywhere

I previously had just one base causing any ecological damage, and then suddenly, the planet went berserk everywhere!

I switched to green economics, to try to calm it down, and I already had forest around all of my older bases, I now building plenty more.

But every single turn, fungus blooms appear, along with new enemies, and the occasional message about the oceans rising. It doesn't seem like it is going to end no matter what I do.

So, any way to calm the planet down?

Can I self destruct my own bases somehow, and eliminate all the smaller newer ones perhaps?

Does anyone know the exact formula the game uses to decide if the planet should freak out like that? Because it didn't give me any problems before, and then suddenly, it just went crazy. I'm thinking its determined somehow by the following 6 factors.

1. Number of bore holes
2. total ecological damage done at various basis
3. planet bonus or penalty in social setting and faction choice
4. total population too high
5. number of bases total
6. number of years in the game

Does the amount of poison gas I use on my enemies, or number of their bases I've exterminated, matter to the planet at all? I'm a huge fan of poison gas, preferring to wipe out enemy bases, instead of wasting time conquering and managing them.

 

[mart777]

Planet busters may trigger that too, if i'm not mistaken. Some AI is nuking a lot?

would you attach a save file, I could take a look. Thanks.

Oh, yes, nerve gas also does that too...

 

[vyeh]

Here is the formula for ecological damage for a base.

Note that nerve gas and obliterating bases are atrocities. (It is not an atrocity to capture a base, but it is an atrocity if you use your military unit to destroy a base after you've captured it.)

Note boreholes are a major source of ecological damage (before tree farms and hybrid forests).

Basically, the more fungal blooms you get, the greater the chance of climate warming.

Planet rating does affect the amount of damage.

Total population, number of bases and number of years in the game does not.

There are two sources of ecological damage from a base: terraforming and mineral production. Terraforming damage is eliminated if you have tree farm and hybrid forest.

The only way to eliminate mineral production damage is to keep it below the clean mineral limit (through a quirk, there is a way to increase the clean mineral limit as the game goes on).

Note that for the amount over the clean mineral limit (plus terraforming where you don't have tree farms and hybrid farms), the eco-damage increases in perihelion, as you gain more techs and as your planet rating goes down.

To give you a more specific answer, please attach a save file. It will give mart777 and me a chance to look at your bases and shift workers around.

 

[NwabudikeMorgan]

The Quirk that vyeh is talking about regarding clean minerals is that certain buildings (temple of planet, centauri preserve) increase the clean minerals count for all bases by 1, but only after the first fungal bloom. so it's in your best interest to have one base piling up the eco-damage, an then as soon as you get one bloom, change that city back to being eco-friendly, and start building centauri preserves and such, in no time you'll have a clean mineral cap so high you won't have to worry.

so basically, get an early bloom, then tree farms and hybrid forests in every base to stop terraforming damage, then get centauri preserves and temples of planet and you're set.

 

[GooglyBoogly]

NEar the end of the game, after the construction of the vioce of planet Secret Project, Planet will go nuts and pop blooms everywhere, there is nothing you can do to prevent these pops (although eco damage will certainly stack on top of this)

 

[NwabudikeMorgan]

solution to the above problem, win before trancendance.

 

[Wolf Dreamer]

Great link. But I am curious about the crawlers.

I noticed before when I used one near a base it was assigned to bring resources to, it did the same amount of ecological damage as having a citizen working it. However if the base it sent resources back to was elsewhere, it didn't appear to always cause that affect. Is this a bug?

And why is it the enemy always knows how many energy credits I have, when they decide on how much to ask for technology? I bought a tech from the Gaian lady for 100 credits, and then Morgan asked for 250 credits for one, and then 350 for another. Never had anyone ask for that much before.

And why is it that factions I have never had any contact with yet, suddenly figure out my number, and call me up to declare vendetta for me using poison gas on enemy troops? That happened in my last game, and when I then contacted them back right away, two of them sued for peace, and agreed to sell me some tech.

I always wondered why it is alright to blow someone to pieces or shoot a bit of metal through them, but not to kill them by poison gas. Seems ridiculous really. And I really don't think factions led by people who do police states, really care if I gas people or not.

Also, how do I destroy my own base? I know its possible, but I don't see it listed anywhere. No sense leaving it behind for an enemy to capture and gain a tech from. The Hive faction destroyed a base with a population of 4(which I think means 40,000 people), and no one declared war on him. Meanwhile I gas a few troops here and there, and everyone goes crazy on me.

Believers: "It is an outrage!"
Me: "But they were all godless heathens anyway! Look at his faction profile woman! He wants an atheist police state, so why do you care if I gas his people to death? You want everyone who doesn't believe in what you do to die anyway, don't you?"

Gaians: "What you have done is unforgivable.. unless your army is significantly larger than mine, then I'll sue for peace."
Me: "Its alright for you to kill off people in a global war just to save the planet, and to go to war and kill people because they decided not to control their population and recycle enough cans, but I can't gas enemy troops when I have to in order to survive?"
Gaian: "You don't recycle your aluminum cans?" "Then war it is! Save the planet by killing all the people on it! Other than us of course."

Hive: "I don't mind nerve stapling and brainwashing my people, and controlling every aspect of their lives, eliminating all personal freedom, nor in massacring 40 thousand of my own people to prevent you from capturing their home, but I'll be damned to find out you are using poison gas to kill anyone at all! There will be war!"

A funny thing I noticed in a game where I played as the pirate faction, was that when I used a ship to fire artillery over land and hit an enemy ship, I actually captured that ship! You can randomly capture any ship you are fighting, even if you aren't next to it. They are pirates after all.

Playing against the pirate faction is a problem, since the guy will put bases everywhere, and they will extend over to the resource gathering points of my already existing land bases, then he'll start a war over it. He told me he had enough of my "alarmist singsong" ways, despite being a loyal pack brother since the beginning. Strange how the game doesn't check to make certain when you place a water base, it doesn't overlap someone else's territory on land.

 

[Cutlass]

I always wondered why it is alright to blow someone to pieces or shoot a bit of metal through them, but not to kill them by poison gas. Seems ridiculous really. And I really don't think factions led by people who do police states, really care if I gas people or not.

Because when you kill soldiers, some civilians might get caught in the crossfire. But when you gas a base, you are intending to kill the civilians with the hope that you might get the soldiers as well.

 

[Wolf Dreamer]

But I got the other factions ticked off when I was just gassing enemy units out in the field. They should only complain when civilians get gassed. Of course with the citizens defense force, isn't everyone a soldier? In times of war even children are sent out to fight.

And in real life they have bans on chemical warfare.

And in the game, every time I win a battle by other means, I end up reducing the base population by one, meaning I just killed 10,000 people while shooting at their military division.

I'll look around the alpha.txt file and see if I can change the atrocities thing. And seriously, if you are in the middle of a battle where you could loose everything, wouldn't you nerve staple your workers if they tried to go on strike?
"I gave you a recreational facility."
"That was 5 turns ago. Now we want a holographic theater. We need proper motivation to keep on working."
"How about not getting blown up by enemy fire? Isn't that motivation enough?"

Yep. Got to keep nerve stapling them, to keep them in line. Either that or alter the factions so there are no drones.

Rambling today... hurricane is coming to wipe my state off the map, or at least half of it.

Hey, any New Orleans mods out there? The mind worms could replaced by a graphic of a hungry alligator, going around attacking you, and the enemy factions would be the bureaucrats(severe negative efficiency rating, and high cost of support), the looters(with probe bonus to capture your units and steal energy credits/money from your bases), and the crazed hillbilly faction they keep showing on the news for some reason. They don't bother you unless you invade their territory, in which case they'll shoot you for trespassing, or for looking like you might try to loot their houses.

 

[vyeh]

Great link. But I am curious about the crawlers.

I noticed before when I used one near a base it was assigned to bring resources to, it did the same amount of ecological damage as having a citizen working it. However if the base it sent resources back to was elsewhere, it didn't appear to always cause that affect. Is this a bug?

There are two components to ecological damage - terraforming and mineral production. If an improvement is within the base radius of a base, it affects that base. This can be irritating when a borehole is within the radius of two bases! If it is being worked (not crawled), it counts as two improvements. Boreholes, echelon mirrors, condensors count extra. If you have a tree farm, this component is reduced by half and if you have a hybrid forest, this component is reduced to 0.

The other component is mineral production. If a crawler is crawling minerals back to the base in whose base radius it is, it will have the same effect on mineral production as one of the base's workers. If it is crawling to another base, then it will have the same effect as an unworked improvement.

Since this effect is implied by the formula in the datalinks, it is NOT a bug; it is part of the game design.

And why is it the enemy always knows how many energy credits I have, when they decide on how much to ask for technology? I bought a tech from the Gaian lady for 100 credits, and then Morgan asked for 250 credits for one, and then 350 for another. Never had anyone ask for that much before.

I suppose it is part of the game design to prevent you from taking advantage of the AI.

And why is it that factions I have never had any contact with yet, suddenly figure out my number, and call me up to declare vendetta for me using poison gas on enemy troops? That happened in my last game, and when I then contacted them back right away, two of them sued for peace, and agreed to sell me some tech.

When two units come in contact with each other, comm frequencies are exchanged. An AI faction can sell you a comm frequency; apparently the AI faction you attacked can give your comm frequency to other AI factions.

I always wondered why it is alright to blow someone to pieces or shoot a bit of metal through them, but not to kill them by poison gas. Seems ridiculous really. And I really don't think factions led by people who do police states, really care if I gas people or not.

This reflects the current state of affairs. WMD's include poison gases. Apparently, Saddam Hussein was okay when he was using conventional weapons, but one whiff of chemical weapons made him a threat that had to be stopped.

Maybe the police state cares more about your +50% attack enhancement because they are more likely to be at war with you.

Also, how do I destroy my own base? I know its possible, but I don't see it listed anywhere. No sense leaving it behind for an enemy to capture and gain a tech from.

When a military unit is in the base, it is "b" on the keyboard. You can also go Menu>Action>Obliterate base (it is the second item).

A funny thing I noticed in a game where I played as the pirate faction, was that when I used a ship to fire artillery over land and hit an enemy ship, I actually captured that ship! You can randomly capture any ship you are fighting, even if you aren't next to it. They are pirates after all.

It is the built-in marine detachment. I guess those marines disembarked, hiked over land and captured the damaged enemy ship!

Playing against the pirate faction is a problem, since the guy will put bases everywhere, and they will extend over to the resource gathering points of my already existing land bases, then he'll start a war over it. He told me he had enough of my "alarmist singsong" ways, despite being a loyal pack brother since the beginning. Strange how the game doesn't check to make certain when you place a water base, it doesn't overlap someone else's territory on land.

You can do that on land. You can colonize a square as long as you aren't in your pact brother's territory. So you get as close as you can and colonize. Lo and behold, your new bases pushes back the territory and you can work a square that used to be in his territory.

Territory has a maximum range of only three squares over water (seven over land).

 

[mart777]

...

Rambling today... hurricane is coming to wipe my state off the map, or at least half of it.

Where do you live? wishing you best of luck against the hurricane!

 

[Wolf Dreamer]

If I build all my bore holes in a nice even grid, out of range of any of my bases, and use crawlers to get resources from them, then what happens?

The formula seems to be for bases only.

Isn't there a total score for planet? Or if no bases ever go into the red, will I be fine?

Because building bases in a way that cuts off any enemy troop movements farther inland, and having crawlers spread about there on mines, is possible.

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Also, it seems odd that two bases near each other, wouldn't just send crawlers to work each other's territory, and thus avoid the mineral and energy harvesting penalty altogether.
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Where do you live? wishing you best of luck against the hurricane!

Farther inland that it'll hit. They said my area will be safe except for people who live in mobile homes. Apparently the winds are strong enough to pick up mobile homes, and use them as projectiles! They keep mentioning that on the radio constantly to get people who live in them, to go to safety. Scary. Glad I got a brick house to live in, so the big bad wolf can't blow it down.

 

[sendos]

I just played a game without suffering a pop, or perhaps I suffered just 3. But that must have been because of being the Gaians.
Anyway, you gotta turn off Free Market when it happens, otherwise native life will cain you. Also, build fungicidal formers, kills fungus fast. Have neural amplifer as well to protect them. Increase morale: get power, that helps defeat native life. As recommended earlier build tree farms, hyrid forests, Centurai preserves and if you are ahead in tech, temple of planet, that will certain make Voice happy. To stop global warming propose a vote to launch solar shade. EASY as pie!
Why does no one use the sleeping gas!?! It demoralizes the enemy by 2 e.g: from elite:50% to 25%. That has no atrocity at all! I place it on my choppers all the time. Wolf dreamer, before you use PB's and nerve gas, lift atrocities first. Long ago, I played a game as Spartans and I had about 400 years worth of sanctions due to nerve gas and nerve stapling.

 

[Wolf Dreamer]

Sleep gas? Is that what its called? Reducing the opponent's power by that much would insure a victory against them. I'll try that from now on.

And I tried to get the other factions to lift the ban on atrocities, however they refuse to. Does the number of people you kill with the gas before asking, make it difficult?

What conditions do each faction require to vote to eliminate it? Do their personalities keep some from considering it no matter what?

As for what social model to use, I normally do Democracy and Planned for growth, unless those options would tick off someone I wish to get tech from, or who might attack me.

I'm playing as Hive in a game I started this morning, with the police state setting, since it makes more sense with them. The Believers keep warning me of my godless police state, but stay in the pact I made with them. Any idea how many turns will go by before she decides to turn against me? Does it matter whether or not she is busy fighting someone else?

 

[vyeh]

If I build all my bore holes in a nice even grid, out of range of any of my bases, and use crawlers to get resources from them, then what happens?

If you crawl mins from them, the receiving base might have to deal with pollution from mineral production. Otherwise those bore holes wouldn't contribute any damage to you.

The formula seems to be for bases only.

Eco-damage is calculated base-by-base,

Isn't there a total score for planet? Or if no bases ever go into the red, will I be fine?

The AI has been known to get fungal pop. Conceivably, an AI could trigger global warming ...

Because building bases in a way that cuts off any enemy troop movements farther inland, and having crawlers spread about there on mines, is possible.

You still have to deal with the pollution from mineral production if you harvest too much for a single base.

Also, it seems odd that two bases near each other, wouldn't just send crawlers to work each other's territory, and thus avoid the mineral and energy harvesting penalty altogether.

What mineral and energy harvesting penalty?

 

[sendos]

When I recently played my Morgan game, Yang had lots of fungal pop, I thought global warming would occur due to him, but it didn't. I even played a game with Free Market (and wealth) the whole way without suffering global warming.

@wolf dreamer: sleeping gas = sulphoric gas pods. It won't work on native life though.

 

[Begle1]

@wolf dreamer: sleeping gas = sulphoric gas pods. It won't work on native life though.

I think it's "Sporific Gas Pods", as if the gas is derived from fungus spores.

I've been known to give my needlejets them on occasion. It's a better special ability that "Trained"; unlike "Trained", gas pods don't stop being useful after a unit gains experience.

Playing without Free Market is nice when it lets you use non-air-superiority needlejets... I was kicking all kinds of progenitor tail once as a Cha Dawn with sporific nerve gas needlejets.

The funny thing about the nerve gas is that Planet typically has a complete seizure when you use it, but when used against progenitors or after the UN charter is repealed, Planet doesn't care at all.

 

[GooglyBoogly]

the same thing applies to planet busters and nerve stapling. Tear up a piece of paper?
Planet notices and lets you do whateverr the hell you want