Please make Editor like Civ3!
- Thread starter Civtroy
- Start date
zulu9812
The Newbie Nightmare
I agree, although it sounds like being a rediculously big task. But not having a civ3-style editor was a big step back for Civ4, IMO.
The Great Apple
Big Cheese
I find XML alot easier to work with than I found the Civ 3 editor.
Osymandias
Grand King of Apes
it may be complexer than the civ3 editor, but it is way more powerfull!
and compare how long cIV is released, it's just a couple of months and there ARE a lot off scenarios, maps, units, mods and and and.....
and if you work a couple of hours with the xml-files then it isn't complex anymore. i think the same counts for python.
a little modder which does his own mods don't need more than xml and perhaps for very little things python.
and compare how long cIV is released, it's just a couple of months and there ARE a lot off scenarios, maps, units, mods and and and.....
and if you work a couple of hours with the xml-files then it isn't complex anymore. i think the same counts for python.
a little modder which does his own mods don't need more than xml and perhaps for very little things python.
Aquilius
Emperor
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2006
- Messages
- 228
Personally I still love the Civ2 Fantastic Worlds editor. IMO this is still the best editor. There you could attach sounds and graphics by drag & drop to each unit and you also could draw your own bitmaps for units with the editor. It was just very simple to handle due to simple game structures. Obviously Civ4 is very complex I think it is not impossible to create a editor like this. So far we have some very nice UIs on the custom map editors but in all of them there just too many features missing like options to edit units in an easy way. What many of us need is just something that automates all XML and Python writing so we can mod by drag and drop. Very indepth modding like altering game concepts or creating some things from scratch surely can't be done by d&d.
HPLovecraft
Chieftain
.XML is not complicated at all. I actually prefer it, as it's far more flexible. Just take a look at the files... all the options are fairly self-explanatory. 0 means off, 1 means on.
alireza1354
Emperor
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2001
- Messages
- 1,056
Lets not go back in time. CIV4 RULEZZZZZZZZ
I think its better to learn working with .XML and develop ourselves too, instead of simplify this game.
I think its better to learn working with .XML and develop ourselves too, instead of simplify this game.
RogerBacon
King
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2003
- Messages
- 649
I like XML too but I wish they would have given every value a default and only written out the values that differed from default. It would have made the files much smaller. Also, in the Star Wars game "Empire at War" they use XML and there is a one line way of deriving a new unit from an existing unit and then only adding the attributes that are different. I wish Civ had that as well.
Roger Bacon
Roger Bacon
How much easier was the civ3 editor really? You had to go in and edit those text files, or whatever they were, for most things. And frankly, a lot of typing into that limited format of the editor was dull and done no other way, with its own special rules half the time. In XML you can cut and pastepastepaste and search and replace.
Of course a lot of those flags were really powerful and convenient. Someone could maybe write an editor, and some have made attempts. If they put an editor into an expansion it would make for more people getting into modding, not faster modding by people who are already in it. Civ 4 is a more complex game, and modding it will simply take longer because of that, not because there is no editor. Also the more difficult graphics are an issue. I don't see why firaxis didn't use more accessible formats. A large ready to use pack of supplemental graphics and animations would help make up for it, and I might not cry. If they put an editor into an expansion it should also be better than the civ 3 editor, not just comparable, to take advantage of experience. Basically something that sugar coats tasks for you as you change things (presenting things as what they are and what they do rather than the xml tag formats and sometimes unclear names), and also prompts you to fix conflicts in other files, so that say when you eliminate a tech it prompts you to fix all references to it in other files, such as units and buildings. The task of changing files is just putting together text, it shouldn't be hard for someone to program, but the task of finding conflicts would be harder, though something already does something like it when it tells you where the conflicts are as you start up a mod.
It would be nice if the XML had come with documentation explaining what things are and what they do and so forth. I got a book about XML but I can read about how schema are done all day and it doesn't tell me the dynamics of civ's XML structure. Sure, there's some value to learning by trial and error and guesswork from names, largely that stuff learned this way is learned well, but really it would save a lot of time to just have a guide, so that for instance I don't have to post a plea for someone to tell me where I can add new Promotions. I'm sure the same sort of thing is needed for the python. A comprehensive reference, documentation you know. Yeah, there are the wikis and tutorials but they are hit and miss.
Also a set of blank XML files would be nice, because I am wasting inordinate time deleting stuff I don't want in a way that doesn't kaput everything else. What I mean is a mod with minimal everything, so that anything that's in it you put in it. One building that has no characteristics of any kind, one unit the same, one promotion, one terrain feature and so on. But I'm making that stuff for myself as I go.
Of course a lot of those flags were really powerful and convenient. Someone could maybe write an editor, and some have made attempts. If they put an editor into an expansion it would make for more people getting into modding, not faster modding by people who are already in it. Civ 4 is a more complex game, and modding it will simply take longer because of that, not because there is no editor. Also the more difficult graphics are an issue. I don't see why firaxis didn't use more accessible formats. A large ready to use pack of supplemental graphics and animations would help make up for it, and I might not cry. If they put an editor into an expansion it should also be better than the civ 3 editor, not just comparable, to take advantage of experience. Basically something that sugar coats tasks for you as you change things (presenting things as what they are and what they do rather than the xml tag formats and sometimes unclear names), and also prompts you to fix conflicts in other files, so that say when you eliminate a tech it prompts you to fix all references to it in other files, such as units and buildings. The task of changing files is just putting together text, it shouldn't be hard for someone to program, but the task of finding conflicts would be harder, though something already does something like it when it tells you where the conflicts are as you start up a mod.
It would be nice if the XML had come with documentation explaining what things are and what they do and so forth. I got a book about XML but I can read about how schema are done all day and it doesn't tell me the dynamics of civ's XML structure. Sure, there's some value to learning by trial and error and guesswork from names, largely that stuff learned this way is learned well, but really it would save a lot of time to just have a guide, so that for instance I don't have to post a plea for someone to tell me where I can add new Promotions. I'm sure the same sort of thing is needed for the python. A comprehensive reference, documentation you know. Yeah, there are the wikis and tutorials but they are hit and miss.
Also a set of blank XML files would be nice, because I am wasting inordinate time deleting stuff I don't want in a way that doesn't kaput everything else. What I mean is a mod with minimal everything, so that anything that's in it you put in it. One building that has no characteristics of any kind, one unit the same, one promotion, one terrain feature and so on. But I'm making that stuff for myself as I go.
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