Possible trades for 1130AD

[Zur]

Trade suggestions for 1130AD:

India:
Contact with English <->gems
Free Artistry
WM
156 gold

Zulu:
Contact with English <->1 luxury
WM

Iroquois:
Metallurgy<-> Gems + 55 gold

Free Artistry<->Gems
WM
Contact with English
5 gpt + 121 gold

Gems rule!

 

[Curufinwe]

How many excess gems do we have?

 

[Skywind]

Since we have only 1 gem for export, I suggest we take the second Iroquois deal for Free Artistry. The populace have talking about the Shakespeare's Theatre that would generate a huge amount of culture, so we'd better enable the building of the wonder immediately. Also, the deal will open the new trade route to England and net us a reasonable amount of golds.

 

[Curufinwe]

I agree with that entirely, we need that 8 culture wonder, if we get a leader huge help to the CAP program, but alas I doubt that.

 

[Daaraa]

I think we should go after the second Iroquois deal.
However, I'd like to point out that the Iroquois is the second place civ and that the rate at which we are pulling away from them is lessening.
With this in mind I would lean toward the Indian deal of the similar nature. The Indians are fighting for third place (and losing) to the Greeks. They are not a threat in the Histograph standings.
The difference would be about 65 gold. Should we risk giving the Iroquois an edge for 20 turns for 65 gold?

Also, we can't get a Great Leader unless we are at war. There is no indication from any of the Presidential candidates of going to war anytime soon.

 

[Curufinwe]

I know we can't, and that is why I said: alas I doubt that

 

[Curufinwe]

Leaders that is.

 

[chiefpaco]

This is a tough call. I think the whole thing hinges on whether or not we want to build Shakespeare's. Is that decided?

Can I throw another in the mix? We could trade Saltpeter and 44 gold to Babylon for Metallurgy & Free Artistry. I don't like giving up gold as much so we could take out a tech & try to get money back instead. So, otherwise, we could trade the saltpeter for Metallurgy, Contact with England, WM & 6 gold.

 

[Zur]

I thought about the saltpeter trade too. The main problem is that Babylon does not have a good standing with us and it is against the current trade & foreign affairs policies to trade important strategic resources to potentially hostile nations. The military department may oppose that trade too.

 

[Plexus]

I oppose this saltpeter trade, Babylon may turn on us if we do trade them this. I feel Shaitan will side with me on this if he reads this during the remainder of his term (about 2 hours, 10 minutes).

 

[punkbass2000]

IF they turned on us, wouldn't they lose the saltpeter?

 

[Zur]

They would, but they could already have built lots of muskets.

 

[Plexus]

Exactly.

 

[Skywind]

But IMO the musketman are merely denfensive units. As long as we don't attack them, who care about tons of musketmen in their distant cities? Metallurgy is what we need for our military force. We can have calvary or rifleman by the end of the next turn chat.

 

[Zur]

Muskets are muskets are muskets. In theory, they would only acts as a defensive force but they could just as easily send them into our borders to pillage stuff. If there is no opposition to that trade I actually don't mind going ahead with it, since we are numerically far superior to them anyway and we would be catching up in technology, but I am expecting a lot of opposition from many departments for this trade. Maybe a poll would need to be held to reach consensus.

 

[Daaraa]

I think a poll would be a good idea with the multiplicity of trade ideas and issues.

 

[Zur]

I'm in a bit of a fiddle about how to phrase the poll. I just thought of another suggestion which may help us get around the problem of having to give saltpeter to the Babylonians. If we wait 1 turn, the incense to Iroquois will expire. If we throw both incense & gems into the mix, we may (or may not, unlikely) be able to obtain both Free Artistry and Metallurgy from the Iroquois. The question remains whether we can obtain Contact with English and WM from Iroquois in the same trade. If not, and if this option is chosen, I suggest obtaining Contact with English & WM from Zulus for a luxury.

Not sure about current poll procedures or even if they have been implemented yet. There is nothing detailed in the constitution. IMO, the poll should be posted at least 24hrs before the Sunday turn chat.

Edit:
As it stands, these are the 2 main options regarding these series of trades:

Option 1)
To do on turn 0:-
Iroquois:
Free Artistry<->Gems
WM
Contact with English
5 gpt + 121 gold

Possibly Babylon (need poll):
Metallurgy<->saltpeter
WM
6 gold.

If the Babylon trade is in, it should be done first so as to obtain more gpt from Iroquois.

Option 2)
To do on turn 0:-
Zulu:
Contact with English<->1 luxury
WM

To do on turn 1:-
Iroquois:
Free artistry<-> gems & incense
Possibly also(order of importance): Metallurgy, WM, gold, gpt.

 

[donsig]

Since the best possible deals won't be known until the current Iroquois deal expires in one turn I suggest the trade department try to figure out what it is the citizens most want from trades during the upcoming turn chat. Based on that information the trade department could recomend the best trade during the turn chat itself.

Specifically, I'm suggesting an information poll that lists what we can acquire (contact with the English, free artistry, metallurgy) and the poll question would be along the lines of: 'What is the most important thing we could acquire via trading in the upcoming turn chat?'

Similar polls regarding whom to trade with and what we should trade away could be conducted if need be.

Assuming someone from trade will be at the chat, that person could use the info from these polls to make an appropriate trade.

 

[chiefpaco]

I still think the trade hinges on which wonders we plan on building. If we, as a nation, do not want Shakespeare's theatre, it simplifies things a lot. A comment from the Domestic leader is critical at this point in time.

Besides a straight poll of the most favoured option, a poll could include some ranking of importance in each option. Kinda like a priority list, like this:
What should our priorities in trade be:
Metallurgy, Contact with English, Free artistry
Free artistry, Metallurgy, Contact...
etc...

You could then use these results to formulate an idea of the plurality of preference. Do you like this way better? I'm not sure which is better. It could get messy with all the permutations. I don't think you have to get an exact approval for each trade. Public opinion on priorities is sufficient to make your instructions, I think. You could probably even use this thread as a measuring stick enough for your final say.

I didn't say I was for the saltpeter trade, I just mentioned it as a possibility. If, in your judgement, it is a bad idea, then it should not be considered, unless there is much support for it. I'm sorry for trying to do your job though.

Also, if you were to do a poll, may I suggest sooner rather than later? Some people don't have time or access on the weekend for participation.

 

[chiefpaco]

Some synchronization will be required between Trade and Foreign affairs. A proposal was made to get Contact with the English with a ROP with the Zulu. Check this thread for details:
Foreign Affairs Proposal for June 2 Turn