Gray Wolf
Winter Wolf
Hey, where are the Celts! How could you possibly leave out the Celts! They MUST be in there somewhere. Everyone knows that!
Just kidding. 
Just kidding. 
PostEpochalypse
- Thread starter Erebras
- Start date
Erebras
Prince
Well, you see, Gray Wolf, The Great Hopyard Famine of 2246 coupled with the draconian Malted Grain Reduction Act a few years prior didn't go well for the last remaining Gaels in the United Kingdom of the Home Nations, but there were still enclaves of Scots-Irish-Cherokee bravely keeping hope alive in the Appalachian regions of the former United States (before the split) until World War IV (called "The Big Two" in keeping with the convention of calling WWIII "The Big One") put an end to everything.
Gray Wolf
Winter Wolf
Cool Back Story. You should probably add that info to the Civilopedia...
Erebras
Prince
I've compiled the list of resources for the mod. The large icons look even better than the small ones.
With the exception of cattle and horses, the luxuries are all drug-based. You'd think I was recommending illicit drug abuse, but really I am postulating that in the dismal, death-filled future, intoxicants would be very valuable trade commodities, used by the citizens to escape reality so they don't riot and used by civil authorities to keep the citizens doped up so they don't riot. But to really take advantage of the mood effects (with improvements that +50% luxury output) comes at a high price of increased corruption and decreased productivity. And this drug trade has historical precedents that go back eons... and don't forget Stygian lotus in the time of Conan and Kull, if you want an ahistorical, ancient reference.
Some resources appear to be duplicates, such as the two Fish, or the Armory & the Weapon Cache, and the Oil & Petroleum. They are not necessarily the same. You'll see.
Still not too late to put in your two-cents' worth. Any other resources out there not already covered by these?
With the exception of cattle and horses, the luxuries are all drug-based. You'd think I was recommending illicit drug abuse, but really I am postulating that in the dismal, death-filled future, intoxicants would be very valuable trade commodities, used by the citizens to escape reality so they don't riot and used by civil authorities to keep the citizens doped up so they don't riot. But to really take advantage of the mood effects (with improvements that +50% luxury output) comes at a high price of increased corruption and decreased productivity. And this drug trade has historical precedents that go back eons... and don't forget Stygian lotus in the time of Conan and Kull, if you want an ahistorical, ancient reference.
Some resources appear to be duplicates, such as the two Fish, or the Armory & the Weapon Cache, and the Oil & Petroleum. They are not necessarily the same. You'll see.
Still not too late to put in your two-cents' worth. Any other resources out there not already covered by these?
Erebras
Prince
I do not like the Expansionistic trait in ![[c3c]](/images/smilies/c3c.gif "Civ3 Conquests [c3c]")
. I even got rid of it in the CivSpecific mod, because I feel it is too unbalancing, if you have goody huts (which I, of course, like, along with raging barbarians). If for some odd reason you don't use goody huts, then the trait becomes underpowered compared to the other strengths, such as Scientific or Seafaring. Well, I didn't completely get rid of it in CivSpecific. I just renamed the Militaristic trait.
But for the post-apocalyptic scenario, I believe it may make a return. I don't really mind if the goody huts are particularly friendly: if an organized political entity is sending out explorers to open up diplomatic relations, and you're a dirty-faced three-eyed mutant living in squalor with your four-breasted wife (it's why you married her, remember?) and half a dozen mutant-spawn running around the radioactive mudhut, wouldn't you say Yes when they say if you'll just join our nation (and the access code to that computer console you're using for a chopping block), we'll provide your... <nervous cough>... children...with an education, lovely beads for your...wife... and give you skin lotion for all those weeping sores on your backside?
And Expansionistic tribes begin with an additional unit (a Scout in). I could give all the tribes an extra military unit not otherwise buildable (kind of like the Ogres in SMAX), perhaps something linked to the past, like an obelisk-thingy from 2001: A Space Odyssey or a defensive weapons-system that logically a group of survivors would assemble around, if it kept them alive, or heavily-armed soldiers equipped with the last of the survivors' horde of weaponry and matériel. Of course, it would have to be universal enough for everyone to have, not a problem for the 31 Civ variant, but the ultimate mod (the one with cyborgs and bolmangani) would take a bit more creativity.
. I even got rid of it in the CivSpecific mod, because I feel it is too unbalancing, if you have goody huts (which I, of course, like, along with raging barbarians). If for some odd reason you don't use goody huts, then the trait becomes underpowered compared to the other strengths, such as Scientific or Seafaring. Well, I didn't completely get rid of it in CivSpecific. I just renamed the Militaristic trait.But for the post-apocalyptic scenario, I believe it may make a return. I don't really mind if the goody huts are particularly friendly: if an organized political entity is sending out explorers to open up diplomatic relations, and you're a dirty-faced three-eyed mutant living in squalor with your four-breasted wife (it's why you married her, remember?) and half a dozen mutant-spawn running around the radioactive mudhut, wouldn't you say Yes when they say if you'll just join our nation (and the access code to that computer console you're using for a chopping block), we'll provide your... <nervous cough>... children...with an education, lovely beads for your...wife... and give you skin lotion for all those weeping sores on your backside?
And Expansionistic tribes begin with an additional unit (a Scout in
). I could give all the tribes an extra military unit not otherwise buildable (kind of like the Ogres in SMAX), perhaps something linked to the past, like an obelisk-thingy from 2001: A Space Odyssey or a defensive weapons-system that logically a group of survivors would assemble around, if it kept them alive, or heavily-armed soldiers equipped with the last of the survivors' horde of weaponry and matériel. Of course, it would have to be universal enough for everyone to have, not a problem for the 31 Civ variant, but the ultimate mod (the one with cyborgs and bolmangani) would take a bit more creativity.
Gray Wolf
Winter Wolf
Me neither. It gives too big of an advantage....I do not like the Expansionistic trait in
Something that I think would be cool as an extra unit would be like in the movie the Oblivion where there are Drones called Scavs flying around. They would be pro-active and defense-oriented weapons systems that can be assembled by a group of survivors ... just like they attempted to do in the movie. YouTube Video of Oblivion Drone
Erebras
Prince
Yes, there are plenty of precedents in sci-fi concerning unmanned weapons systems. To me, one of the earliest references would be the sentry guns in Aliens. Screamers -- (reinventing the sword) -- is a movie whose major basis is weapon drones getting out of hand. I'm thinking there were similar objects in Star Wars, Star Trek, or both, but nothing really comes to mind. I had finished watching Oblivion just the other day, and those drones are cool.
Floating artificial intelligence-operated drones would fit in the postmodern era of the mod. (The first era goes up to non-high-tech 20th-century and 21st-century militaries. The second era reintroduces military units that are concepts or cutting edge in our present world. The third era begins to get into speculative fiction styles of units, such as The Rocketeer (never saw the movie, but...), while still grounded in plausible physics. The final era goes crazy with portable fusion powerpacks (no longer restricted to time-travelling DeLoreans), tactical laser beams, and transporter beams/matter-to-energy converters.
Floating artificial intelligence-operated drones would fit in the postmodern era of the mod. (The first era goes up to non-high-tech 20th-century and 21st-century militaries. The second era reintroduces military units that are concepts or cutting edge in our present world. The third era begins to get into speculative fiction styles of units, such as The Rocketeer (never saw the movie, but...), while still grounded in plausible physics. The final era goes crazy with portable fusion powerpacks (no longer restricted to time-travelling DeLoreans), tactical laser beams, and transporter beams/matter-to-energy converters.
Erebras
Prince
I wanted to contrive a scientific base-10 timekeeping system and related terminology as "backstory" or "atmosphere" for the mod. Actually, it's more for a proposed terraforming mod using much of what this mod will contain, but, anyhow, this is what I've come up with. (I'm aware of decimal time, or French Revolutionary Time, but only looked into it after I came up with this. I'm happier with this result.)
[" ~" actually means "roughly equivalent to"]
centage ~ 15 minutes
100 centages = one cycle ( ~ 25 hours)
4 centages ~ one hour (quattuor)
10 centages = one decicycle (dekacent) ~ 2.5 hours (deçic)
3 deçics = one workshift (said of thirds)
millicent ~ one split-second (1/1000 centage) (used the same way as "second" or "sec" is used in slang phrases, kind of like "Hold on a sec" might become "Wait a millicent, will you?" for example)
Deep sea industries (where sunlight is irrelevant) and extraterrestrial industries (such as space exploration) adopted this system as a constant for worlds with varying rotational speeds, and aboard vessels where sunrises and sunsets simply don't apply. Dekacent as a term didn't take as expected; speakers preferred the reverse way of describing the same time period (1/10 of a cycle, rather than as 10 centages). Although the Latin name of quattuor is the official designation of an "hourly" cycle, speakers tended to automatically use the term of their mother tongue or native tongue for four, foursome, group of four, and so forth, except in official correspondence.
Deçics (decicycles) are used by labor-class and blue-collar workers, as their workday setups are different from academic and applied science professionals. (A sanitation engineer might say, "I didn't break for lunch 'til halfway through my second deçic.")
The attached pictorial representation shows centages in alternating red and teal (or alternating purple and teal), and one deçic is shown in orange, to illustrate the cycle relationships similar to a terrestrial clockface, although it should be noted that personnel using this system of timekeeping tend to conceive of time as linear, rather than cyclic. Cyclic thinking is very "earthbound."
[" ~" actually means "roughly equivalent to"]
centage ~ 15 minutes
100 centages = one cycle ( ~ 25 hours)
4 centages ~ one hour (quattuor)
10 centages = one decicycle (dekacent) ~ 2.5 hours (deçic)
3 deçics = one workshift (said of thirds)
millicent ~ one split-second (1/1000 centage) (used the same way as "second" or "sec" is used in slang phrases, kind of like "Hold on a sec" might become "Wait a millicent, will you?" for example)
Deep sea industries (where sunlight is irrelevant) and extraterrestrial industries (such as space exploration) adopted this system as a constant for worlds with varying rotational speeds, and aboard vessels where sunrises and sunsets simply don't apply. Dekacent as a term didn't take as expected; speakers preferred the reverse way of describing the same time period (1/10 of a cycle, rather than as 10 centages). Although the Latin name of quattuor is the official designation of an "hourly" cycle, speakers tended to automatically use the term of their mother tongue or native tongue for four, foursome, group of four, and so forth, except in official correspondence.
Deçics (decicycles) are used by labor-class and blue-collar workers, as their workday setups are different from academic and applied science professionals. (A sanitation engineer might say, "I didn't break for lunch 'til halfway through my second deçic.")
The attached pictorial representation shows centages in alternating red and teal (or alternating purple and teal), and one deçic is shown in orange, to illustrate the cycle relationships similar to a terrestrial clockface, although it should be noted that personnel using this system of timekeeping tend to conceive of time as linear, rather than cyclic. Cyclic thinking is very "earthbound."
Erebras
Prince
In explaining this concept to my wife, I realized a few other ideas I'd left out of the earlier posting.
1. Corresponding to how literal (60 minute) hours and (60 second) minutes relate to the base-10 timekeeping, I liken it to comparing dollars to pounds. Dollar bills and pound-notes are pretty much the same thing in their respective economies, but dollars and pounds are not equivalent to each other. It's the same thing with STK.
2. Human beings have daily biorhythms and cultural expectations (such as mealtimes) that don't fit neatly into a decimal time system. This is why there are such things as decicycles and "Fours", the latter of which being a moniker for an hour.
3. Saying four centages is awkward linguistically, so it's natural to shorten it to four or foursome. So on a spaceship, if someone means, "I need an hour to get the shuttlecraft ready," what is said is, "The shuttle will be ready in Four (or Vier, or Quatre, or Cuatro or Tsu no or Si or...)" and within context, it is understood not to be anything other than four centages, or the same amount of time that elapses within a single earth-hour.
4. In English, there is a saying of "Take five" which literally means "stop for five minutes" but in reality is a non-specific way of telling someone to take a break for a short while. In STK, saying "Take Four" is more like saying "I'm on my lunch-hour" or "I'll be in my quarters taking a power nap."
5. I don't have an equivalent for a minute (60 earth-seconds). Hectomillicent doesn't cut it, though it is pretty much correct to say it as such.
1. Corresponding to how literal (60 minute) hours and (60 second) minutes relate to the base-10 timekeeping, I liken it to comparing dollars to pounds. Dollar bills and pound-notes are pretty much the same thing in their respective economies, but dollars and pounds are not equivalent to each other. It's the same thing with STK.
2. Human beings have daily biorhythms and cultural expectations (such as mealtimes) that don't fit neatly into a decimal time system. This is why there are such things as decicycles and "Fours", the latter of which being a moniker for an hour.
3. Saying four centages is awkward linguistically, so it's natural to shorten it to four or foursome. So on a spaceship, if someone means, "I need an hour to get the shuttlecraft ready," what is said is, "The shuttle will be ready in Four (or Vier, or Quatre, or Cuatro or Tsu no or Si or...)" and within context, it is understood not to be anything other than four centages, or the same amount of time that elapses within a single earth-hour.
4. In English, there is a saying of "Take five" which literally means "stop for five minutes" but in reality is a non-specific way of telling someone to take a break for a short while. In STK, saying "Take Four" is more like saying "I'm on my lunch-hour" or "I'll be in my quarters taking a power nap."
5. I don't have an equivalent for a minute (60 earth-seconds). Hectomillicent doesn't cut it, though it is pretty much correct to say it as such.
Erebras
Prince
Procrastination hits hard. I'm surprised I shelved this project for six months. Doesn't seem that long. In the meanwhile I had purchased Beyond Earth and played it for a while, but it's lost its luster, at least until patches and updates make it worthwhile again. I had expected it to make my effort here obsolete, but has longevity.
One good thing about stepping back and taking a fresh look: you gain perspective and reconsider things about the mod. I like the names of the four eras -- Survival, Remodernization, Postmodernization, Futuristics -- but the whole point of the mod was to capture the feel of living in a world devastated and laid waste, and my shortcuts -- such as borrowing from SMAC's techtree, for example -- hinder that. The first era isn't gritty enough. It seems one will just skim through the first era without really getting a sense of desperation and rebuilding. It's more like you start the era with baseball bats and scavenged handguns and by the end of the era you're driving armored cars around. Somewhat logical, yes, but the default game doesn't have such a huge jump in combat ability and technology, and neither should this mod.
I'll probably stretch the survivalism and scavenging into the second era, keep city sizes small for a while (through plague and pollution, and restrict the benefits of being on a river or lake), and maybe not take the techtree into matter-to-energy conversion and such. Make it more like Aliens and less like Star Trek, I'm thinking.
has longevity.One good thing about stepping back and taking a fresh look: you gain perspective and reconsider things about the mod. I like the names of the four eras -- Survival, Remodernization, Postmodernization, Futuristics -- but the whole point of the mod was to capture the feel of living in a world devastated and laid waste, and my shortcuts -- such as borrowing from SMAC's techtree, for example -- hinder that. The first era isn't gritty enough. It seems one will just skim through the first era without really getting a sense of desperation and rebuilding. It's more like you start the era with baseball bats and scavenged handguns and by the end of the era you're driving armored cars around. Somewhat logical, yes, but the default game doesn't have such a huge jump in combat ability and technology, and neither should this mod.
I'll probably stretch the survivalism and scavenging into the second era, keep city sizes small for a while (through plague and pollution, and restrict the benefits of being on a river or lake), and maybe not take the techtree into matter-to-energy conversion and such. Make it more like Aliens and less like Star Trek, I'm thinking.
Erebras
Prince
I know I've got several WH40K units left to complete, but I got my second wind. Time to re-gear up for modding. I've decided to make a few changes. The mod wasn't gritty enough, so I'm eliminating forest terrain, making it a non-contaminated version of Desolation/Brownfield. I'm turning grassland shields into relict trees, rather than the little tower and power pole I originally intended. The trees provide a rational explanation for the boost in production without actually impacting the terrain's defensive value.
I've decided to let the mod linger in the Survivalism era a bit longer, rather than rush into a reindustrialized society.
As for civilization traits, I'm exploring civilization weaknesses rather than strengths. They would look something like this:
Pacifist -- units gain experience less often; barracks cost more to build
Urban/HunterGatherer -- one less food in city centers; granaries cost more to build; irrigated deserts produce one less food
Hydrophobic/Landlubber -- start away from coast; coastal cities have no extra trade; ports cost more to build; naval units move slower
Technophobic -- no free tech advances in each era; libraries and schools cost more to build
Rebellious -- government changes cause long periods of anarchy; religious buildings cost more to build
Corrupt -- cities experience more corruption; one less trade in city centers; commercial buildings cost more to build
Xenophobic -- barbarians are more unfriendly; no extra unit at start
Slothful/Slave Society -- one fewer shield in city centers; workers take longer to complete jobs; factories and power plants cost more to build
Each civilization would have most traits (militaristic, expansionistic, etc) but what they don't have is what would describe and define them.
I've decided to let the mod linger in the Survivalism era a bit longer, rather than rush into a reindustrialized society.
As for civilization traits, I'm exploring civilization weaknesses rather than strengths. They would look something like this:
Pacifist -- units gain experience less often; barracks cost more to build
Urban/HunterGatherer -- one less food in city centers; granaries cost more to build; irrigated deserts produce one less food
Hydrophobic/Landlubber -- start away from coast; coastal cities have no extra trade; ports cost more to build; naval units move slower
Technophobic -- no free tech advances in each era; libraries and schools cost more to build
Rebellious -- government changes cause long periods of anarchy; religious buildings cost more to build
Corrupt -- cities experience more corruption; one less trade in city centers; commercial buildings cost more to build
Xenophobic -- barbarians are more unfriendly; no extra unit at start
Slothful/Slave Society -- one fewer shield in city centers; workers take longer to complete jobs; factories and power plants cost more to build
Each civilization would have most traits (militaristic, expansionistic, etc) but what they don't have is what would describe and define them.
Erebras
Prince
Pretty much a normal spread of governments, like in default , but the names are different.
ANARCHY - transition type of government; no production, no upkeep.
ANOCRACY -- blanket term for small, ineffective tribal structure or chiefdom; acts like Despotism.
DICTATORSHIP -- first progression of government beyond the local level; ruled by military commander or personality cult leader; inherent corruption and waste means standard tile penalty; no war weariness; more corruption than normal; unit support mostly from small settlements.
AUTHORITARIAN STATE -- unitary state with free market; military police and no war weariness; normal production (no tile penalty) with normal corruption and waste
TOTALITARIAN STATE -- unitary state with central planning; military police and no war weariness, plus communal corruption and waste
SOCIOCRACY -- well-structured government intended for small pluralist collectives (think free thinker communes or anachronistically enlightened communities); standard tile penalty with standard trade bonus; no military police and high war weariness; minimal corruption & waste
SOCIALIST REPUBLIC -- representative government with central planning; normal production and communal corruption; moderate war weariness and more miltary police than federal republic.
FEDERAL REPUBLIC -- representative government with free market; normal production with trade bonus; moderate war weariness and fewer military police than socialist republic
These structures are derived from several axes:
AXIS OF UNITARY STATE vs REPUBLIC (military police and no war weariness vs trade bonuses/lower corruption and some war weariness)
AXIS OF CENTRAL PLANNING vs FREE MARKET (communal corruption/unit support vs trade bonus)
AXIS OF PRODUCTIVITY (low production vs industry and agriculture)
AXIS OF NO GOVT vs BIG GOVT (low production/high corruption vs production & trade) (As an aside, in the U.S. both major parties are for big government, just in different ways, and any kind of federal or central government for a large nation is big by definition.)
I think I've effectively rendered the push-pull of all the different forms of government, even CivII-style Fundamentalism, but if a CivFanatic reading this has other ideas, share them on this forum.
, but the names are different.ANARCHY - transition type of government; no production, no upkeep.
ANOCRACY -- blanket term for small, ineffective tribal structure or chiefdom; acts like Despotism.
DICTATORSHIP -- first progression of government beyond the local level; ruled by military commander or personality cult leader; inherent corruption and waste means standard tile penalty; no war weariness; more corruption than normal; unit support mostly from small settlements.
AUTHORITARIAN STATE -- unitary state with free market; military police and no war weariness; normal production (no tile penalty) with normal corruption and waste
TOTALITARIAN STATE -- unitary state with central planning; military police and no war weariness, plus communal corruption and waste
SOCIOCRACY -- well-structured government intended for small pluralist collectives (think free thinker communes or anachronistically enlightened communities); standard tile penalty with standard trade bonus; no military police and high war weariness; minimal corruption & waste
SOCIALIST REPUBLIC -- representative government with central planning; normal production and communal corruption; moderate war weariness and more miltary police than federal republic.
FEDERAL REPUBLIC -- representative government with free market; normal production with trade bonus; moderate war weariness and fewer military police than socialist republic
These structures are derived from several axes:
AXIS OF UNITARY STATE vs REPUBLIC (military police and no war weariness vs trade bonuses/lower corruption and some war weariness)
AXIS OF CENTRAL PLANNING vs FREE MARKET (communal corruption/unit support vs trade bonus)
AXIS OF PRODUCTIVITY (low production vs industry and agriculture)
AXIS OF NO GOVT vs BIG GOVT (low production/high corruption vs production & trade) (As an aside, in the U.S. both major parties are for big government, just in different ways, and any kind of federal or central government for a large nation is big by definition.)
I think I've effectively rendered the push-pull of all the different forms of government, even CivII-style Fundamentalism, but if a CivFanatic reading this has other ideas, share them on this forum.
Spoiler :
Balthasar
Wise Man
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2005
- Messages
- 3,293
You did miss some of my favs:
Theocracy: principal foes are other theocracies and liberal democracies. Low Science, high chance of (forced) assimilation. See Totalitarianism for most stats. Theocracies have religious buildings with lots of cultural influence and religious units that are fearless and have higher-than-average hitpoints even when unarmed. Most theocracies are also raging xenophobes: voted "most likely to start a nuclear program".
Plutocracy/Corporatocracy: High Science potential, expansionistic. Often builds expensive cultural Wonders while also pumping out improvements with low or even negative cultural value. Standard tile penalty with standard trade bonus; high war weariness, Military police (Corporate Security). Veteran espionage. Voted "most likely to steal a tech".
Erebras
Prince
I've decided to shelve this project. I was never able to get into Civ IV -- indeed, I only purchased it to play a SMAC mod -- but Civ V is another matter. I'm hoping to find proper terrain graphics for Civ V to make a worldship scenario, but in the meantime I'm going to adapt this mod (PostEpochalypse) and my MagePunk mod to Civ V if I can. It's amazing to me how many hundreds of hours gets wasted when I stop playing a version of Civ, but at least the original research and core concepts aren't wasted.
It's been a fun ride. Time to move on.
It's been a fun ride. Time to move on.
timerover51
Deity
I've decided to shelve this project. I was never able to get into Civ IV -- indeed, I only purchased it to play a SMAC mod -- but Civ V is another matter. I'm hoping to find proper terrain graphics for Civ V to make a worldship scenario, but in the meantime I'm going to adapt this mod (PostEpochalypse) and my MagePunk mod to Civ V if I can. It's amazing to me how many hundreds of hours gets wasted when I stop playing a version of Civ, but at least the original research and core concepts aren't wasted.
It's been a fun ride. Time to move on.
You will be missed. Perhaps an occasional visit here in the future?