pre-gunpowder

[mamazmamaz]

Alot of people talk about how attacking is hard before gunpowder. gunpowder allows musketeers, yet musketters arent really good attackers, compared to say a crusader. i find not much difference in attaking from non Gpowder to Gpowder.
is there something i'm missing?

 

[la fayette]

What you are missing is that the very much improved defence capacity of the musketman allows you to attack cities with catapults (or cannons as soon as you have got Metallurgy) much more easily than with previous units: for example, if you fortify a vet musketman on a hill, you are fairly sure that the AI won't be able to destroy him.
Of course the reverse is true as soon as the AI has discovered Gunpowder: fortified vet musketmen behind walls on terrain with defence bonus stand a fair chance against any ground unit except the howitzer:die:

 

[.:KNAS:.]

I read somewhere that Starlifter said that if the unit is behind walls, being fortified or not doesn't make a difference...

 

[Zwelgje]

The thread is here.

 

[la fayette]

Originally posted by .:KNAS:.
I read somewhere that Starlifter said that if the unit is behind walls, being fortified or not doesn't make a difference...

Starlifter is perfectly right...as usual .
To make it clear, the bonus given by walls (+200% immediately) replaces the +50% bonus provided (one turn later) by the 'f' command.
Remember that both bonuses combine with the bonuses provided by the terrain: therefore, if you build a city with walls on a mountain, a vet phalanx will be able to survive the attack of an armour quite often .

 

[sethos]

Vet-Crusaders! When I get mono and I'm not alone on my continent, I build them (about 12-20). In pre-gunpowder times, nothing can stand them - even city walls cannot protect the defenders.
When a crusader is built, let him fight against a weak unit so that he'll probably become a vet (perhaps a barb leader : or a warrior). It helps a lot to build Sun Tzu's.
An the one of the most terrible weapons: A diplo.
I like to bribe cities with a wonder in it . And I like to bribe units

 

[Smash]

Yes bribing early is the best time as cities and civs are small and crappy and things come fairly cheap.

2 main ways I go for early war.Knights or crusaders or both eventually.Then just win a war of attrition if necessary.Most times though,vet knights or crusaders can roll right thru civs..The only real threat is AIs getting pikemen.Invariably you will end up with at least 1 river city with walls and pikes if the AI gets Feudalism.Then you must bribe,sabotage or flash forts and roll in catapults.

 

[ElephantU]

The value of gunpowder, even the lowly Musketeer, is in the doubling of the Hit Points. They outlast pre-gunpowder units, even vet Legions.

 

[Darth Civ]

I just defend with pikeman until u can get the musketeer...
... well its wat i do

 

[Ben II]

I never use musketmen to attack

 

[Old n Slow]

I often use muskets (& later rifles) on the attack -- two cases: 1) if the defender is one of those def = 1 units, then the 3 to 1 odds looks pretty good. 2) especially after a Leo’s update, having some cheap attacks further “upgrades” my ‘new’ units to vets via Sun Tsu.

 

[Terrapin]

After Leos upgrades my ancient infantry to riflemen, I will sometimes attack. This is one of the biggest and most lasting tech gaps ina lot of my games. At this point, since I am in Rep/Dem, the civ I attack must be conveniently nearby and/or I must have magnetism so I can get 0 attack ships and minimize unhappiness.