Protect City State Quests

[Thecos]

Has anyone else had this problem when trying to go to war to protect a city state?

Rival Civ declares war on neutral city state.
City state asks for assistance (specifically, kill 5 enemy units)
I declare war on rival civ and start sending my army to assist.
I kill 1 or 2 enemy units to help protect them.
City State makes peace with Rival Civ.
Rival Civ refuses to make peace with me.
City State gets angry at me for "trespassing" until I move my troops out of their borders.

And now, after going to WAR for this guy, I'm left in a war by myself, and not only did I not gain ANY favor with the city state, I actually ended up at -1 due to trespassing! Talk about ungrateful.

Is there a better way to be trying to complete this city state quest? Should I just not take it at all unless my forces are already in position to accomplish the target goal in just a few turns?

Also, does anyone know if stomping on embarked units counts towards the "kill x enemy units" goals? I could have sworn I killed enough embarked units one time to fulfill the quest but didn't get credit.

 

[thwump]

Usually I wouldn't get involved unless you can kill the units relatively quickly (at least you can start moving units but don't make the declaration until really ready). I'm not sure about embarked units but I know capturing civilians does count.

 

[Pantastic]

Generally, if I'm going to assist a city-state on that quest then I don't try to crowd through their land, I DOW the aggressor and attack him directly. This is usually easier since he'll have his concentrated armies in the CS, not at his border, and I can take some cities. I'm not sure about embarked units, but civilian units definitely count for the total, I've completed that quest purely with worker captures.

If I was going to go into a CS's land to defend, I'd drop 250 on him first to make friends so that my units won't tick him off. Getting the 'trespassing' penalty just before the bonus for completing a quest wastes some of the quest bonus. Generally I want the city to hit and stay allied, so I'm going to spend 250+ on bribes at some point anyway.

 

[renegadechicken]

I too got sick of this problem-- I risk everything to save them, and I get nothing in return but an unwanted war and a slap in the face from the victim I was trying to rescue!

What I do now (and it works RIDICULOUSLY well, by the way!) is intentionally FAIL the quest. I'll build up my military (if needed) and position them near the City State's border and between me and the aggressor. Once he/she takes the CS, I'll fail the mission, but immediately (or whenever I'm ready) declare war on the aggressor. Then I simply retake the CS, for which they are ETERNALLY grateful (they will love you for a long, long time-- much longer than if you had saved them, in fact!), and no "trespassing" hit. Try it-- you'll never go back.

Another option (more work, but can be equally or more entertaining) is to "quarantine" the CS with your own units (much easier if you have "open borders" with the CS!) so the aggressor can't actually attack. It can also be fun to create a partial quarantine, only letting one unit through at a time to get destroyed by the CS.

I suppose if you think these are cheap/roleplay-breaking and want to complete the mission as intended, you could wait to declare war until you're ready, as others have said.

 

[thwump]

I too got sick of this problem-- I risk everything to save them, and I get nothing in return but an unwanted war and a slap in the face from the victim I was trying to rescue!

What I do now (and it works RIDICULOUSLY well, by the way!) is intentionally FAIL the quest. I'll build up my military (if needed) and position them near the City State's border and between me and the aggressor. Once he/she takes the CS, I'll fail the mission, but immediately (or whenever I'm ready) declare war on the aggressor. Then I simply retake the CS, for which they are ETERNALLY grateful (they will love you for a long, long time-- much longer than if you had saved them, in fact!), and no "trespassing" hit. Try it-- you'll never go back.

Another option (more work, but can be equally or more entertaining) is to "quarantine" the CS with your own units (much easier if you have "open borders" with the CS!) so the aggressor can't actually attack. It can also be fun to create a partial quarantine, only letting one unit through at a time to get destroyed by the CS.

I suppose if you think these are cheap/roleplay-breaking and want to complete the mission as intended, you could wait to declare war until you're ready, as others have said.

Well its important to note that the AI isn't always competent at taking city states. CS usually have the city defense bonuses and if the AI attacks without siege they'll often just die trying to attack it.

 

[Pantastic]

Once he/she takes the CS, I'll fail the mission, but immediately (or whenever I'm ready) declare war on the aggressor.

In my experience, either the AI takes the CS too quickly for me to do anything about it (too many units or a big tech advantage) or just sends units in to die ineffectively until he decides to ask for peace. If I expect the AI to actually take the city then your method works, but usually I see the AIs send their army in to die, which makes attacking their main cities even more attractive.

 

[wurstburst]

Another option (more work, but can be equally or more entertaining) is to "quarantine" the CS with your own units (much easier if you have "open borders" with the CS!) so the aggressor can't actually attack. It can also be fun to create a partial quarantine, only letting one unit through at a time to get destroyed by the CS.

I suppose if you think these are cheap/roleplay-breaking and want to complete the mission as intended, you could wait to declare war until you're ready, as others have said.

I've done this. I like to think of it as a peacekeeping force. Let just one unit in at a time to slow down the war (and by way of "unintended" consequence, let get killed a few invading civ units). Not my fault if the two sides can't respect a legitimate attempt to keep the peace.

 

[Lanstro]

If I've decided to declare war on the rival civ, then I tend to just let the city state get conquered, and then liberate them from that rival civ. You get more influence out of it that way.

 

[renegadechicken]

In my experience, either the AI takes the CS too quickly for me to do anything about it (too many units or a big tech advantage) or just sends units in to die ineffectively until he decides to ask for peace. If I expect the AI to actually take the city then your method works, but usually I see the AIs send their army in to die, which makes attacking their main cities even more attractive.

Well, it depends what your goals are (and likely, what difficulty you play on). This situation offers a lot of possibilities.

For example, if you just want the CS to like you, you can let the AI take the city and then liberate it at your leisure. On the other hand, if you notice that the AI can't seem to take the CS, you MAY be able to actually complete their quest and you can just flank them with your units. Again, this is all about timing-- you decide when and where to attack, so you can make sure you can kill 5 units before they both sue for peace. Timing and tactics are even more crucial if the AI has a big tech lead, as you will likely want a good mix of ranged and melee units to take out the AI units. If you can't produce/position your troops in time, you wouldn't have been able to complete the quest anyway, and you've saved yourself a costly war over a thankless City State.

On the other other hand, if you just want to take advantage of the situation and destabilize the AI, you can just attack their core cities while their army is off fighting the CS (as you pointed out). In my experience, they do not recall their army in this case, but simply continue attacking the CS.

Note that all of this "advice" is from my experience playing at level 5 and 6 (King and Emperor?).

 

[wurstburst]

I am surprised at all the responses to wait until the AI conquers the CS. They seem to be pretty awful at that. In the game that I am playing now, Siam, Greece and Germany all attacked a CS near me at the same time. They did pretty much nothing to it in the 5 or 6 turns it took me to get over there. I busted some heads and destroyed Siam's cities on the way back, nabbing a puppet from their capital.

In the mean time, Germany is in perma-war with the CS and I've been ignoring them. They camped 2 cities right next door to the CS. Every 3 turns or so, the CS manages to knock out another pikeman or swordsman of Germany with the city barrage and garrisoned archer. Occasionally the CS makes a spearman and takes out an additional unit before getting killed by germany's city barrage crossfire. And for my troubles I've gotten an archer and catapult from them that I sorely needed.

 

[renegadechicken]

lol The poor AI...

Truth is, in the 5 games I've played (they were long ones, and I work, ok? ), I've rarely seen this. Almost always the AI takes out the CS no problem. I saw the AI get bogged down on a CS once, but eventually they sent about 5 units at once and surrounded it, then sacked it. Took them long enough, but they got it.

I'd say on average, a CS is captured every 60ish turns in the games I've played. That's why I recommended just waiting to liberate, but I guess everyone's experience is different. I am curious though if difficulty plays a part-- I play on 5 and 6 (King and Emperor, I believe), so maybe on higher or lower difficulties the AI has more trouble against the CSs?

 

[filorux]

Well, it depends what your goals are (and likely, what difficulty you play on). This situation offers a lot of possibilities.

For example, if you just want the CS to like you, you can let the AI take the city and then liberate it at your leisure. On the other hand, if you notice that the AI can't seem to take the CS, you MAY be able to actually complete their quest and you can just flank them with your units.

Or you can be super-tricky and weaken the CS with your own siege, let the AI take it, then liberate it. Hehe.

 

[renegadechicken]

Or you can be super-tricky and weaken the CS with your own siege, let the AI take it, then liberate it. Hehe.

If the AI takes the CS while you're still at war with that CS (weakening the city with seige), will you be able to actually liberate that CS?

In a recent game, several (at least three) City States wanted me to take out one CS (Singapore). As Siam, I wanted City States even more for that extra bonus, so I did something I normally never do: I attacked another City State. But I had a thought: What if I could have my cake and eat it too?

So, I attacked and easily captured Singapore. I then sold it to an AI that I was planning to attack (Hiawatha was getting a bit big for my tastes). A few turns later, after some strategic positioning of forces, I declared war on Hiawatha, razing a few cities and heading in to liberate Singapore. When I captured Singapore a few turns later, however, the only two options were Annex and Puppet; I couldn't Liberate!

I was a bit annoyed, but hey, this is a good thing-- this part of the game was done really well in my opinion. Even though I wanted to, I couldn't just take a CS, sell it, then "liberate" it.

 

[Razzlesnaff]

I never participate in those quests. I just let the rival Civ conquer the city state and then liberate it. Much more influence that way. Feels cheesy, but I do it anyway.

 

[zimmah]

i only 'take' those quests if i allready am at war with someone, or if i was planning to attack them anyway.

for the rest, i always protect my allied citystates, as i just don't want to lose their benefits.

btw, gifting units to them also helps.

 

[JimT]

Well its important to note that the AI isn't always competent at taking city states. CS usually have the city defense bonuses and if the AI attacks without siege they'll often just die trying to attack it.

Your not joking, in the GOTM I'm playing Genoa has destroyed a number of French units sitting just inside his border, razed one French city and captured another (didn't know they could do that). Turns out the AI ineffectiveness doesn't extend to City states.

 

[elthrasher]

What I find annoying is there's no reward for a peaceful solution. City State asks for help. If you go to the rival civ and threaten or bribe them out of war, the City State is saved, but you get nothing. In a game called Civilization, it seems to me that there should be some reward involved in a peaceful diplomatic approach.

 

[Fluxx]

Note, you do not have to kill the units in the CS borders to finish the quest.
Killing any units anywhere of the rival civ will contribute to the total count. This basically means you can start snatching city's of the rival civ while his units are scattered, and you get a two for one instead.

 

[renegadechicken]

What I find annoying is there's no reward for a peaceful solution. City State asks for help. If you go to the rival civ and threaten or bribe them out of war, the City State is saved, but you get nothing. In a game called Civilization, it seems to me that there should be some reward involved in a peaceful diplomatic approach.

QFT!

I couldn't agree more!