Protecting coastlines

[spod]

If I have one of more ships (sail, frigate, whatever) patrolling along my coastline, does it deter the AI from attacking that coastline?

I have a feeling that it does. Unprotected coastlines tend to take a pounding from other civs.

I also have the feeling that if you do protect a stretch of coastline, the opposing civs just attack somewhere else - somewhere that's not so well protected.

Any thoughts on this?

 

[Mize]

I don't think your patrols would deter the AI ships unless they were sinking them. What I've noticed is that the AI usually picks a couple of landing spots near cities it wants to take and keeps landing there for a while until it either takes the city or finds another place for expansion, or starts another war and redirects its forces elswhere. If you're at war with the AI, just sink its ships whenever you see them. The first viable shipsinking unit is the frigate, using triremes and sails is too much of a risk, I think. When you have steel, a couple of battleships patrolling the hotspots I mentioned should be enough to keep enemy troops off your beaches. If the enemy has a better navy than you however, you're probably going to be better of if you fortify your beaches.

If the terrain is flat, you should just have enough chariots/knights/armor stationed in the nearby cities to take out any landing troops. If there are hills or mountains where enemies can land it is probably best to just occupy the high ground. Eventually you'd have to build a fortress there if you allow the AI to research its way up to battleships. But if you can make it land its troops in the field with no cover and you have a strong offensive unit nearby, you're pretty much safe.

 

[Valen]

I agree whole-heartedly with Mize's strategy.
There is one more tactic that I have seen mentioned in similar discussions.
It may not work for every situation, but it is often worth a try: Strike first.
Hit the AI where they live. At the very least, build a small city on their continent and rush city walls. Keep it stocked with your best defenders and at least one counterstrike unit.
One small city will act as a thorn in the AI's side that they cannot ignore. They will direct their energy there instead of your shores.

 

[Mize]

Valen's suggestion also works quite well but if there are two or three enemy civs landing on your continent keeping them all busy on their mainland is expensive.

Another way to protect your coastlines is to blockade the AI's port cities. Station your patrol ships where they produce and load their ships with troops and sink them there. This tactic only works if the enemy doesn't have too many large ports though. It's good to have a slight technological edge, because you only have a narrow window of opportunity to cripple your opponent this way. It opens with steam engine (even though veteran ironclads still have an amazingly high mortality rate vs frigates IMO) and ends when the AI catches up with your battleships and starts building its own. But you can sink a great deal of tonnage this way because you're not only protecting your own coast, but you're also sinking vessels dispatched elswhere by the AI.

Hope we helped.

Now I'm gonna play some Civ.

 

[Theov]

Yes, patrol some ships near the place where they land (if you space them, so you see a big strip of water is best) or where they come from and take out anything you see.
Sometimes you're not able to make (strong) ships, then just place some attacking unit one tile behind where they land.
xxxxxxxxxxx
u u u u u u
Where x is the coast line and u is an (attacking) unit.

 

[spod]

Hope we helped.

You've helped a lot. Thanks everybody!

 

[jordissim]

Prbably a silly question, but why is it so important to protect coastlines? Early on the game, barbarians are the only real threat, and if defense of cities has been managed properly and a route of roads links all of them, then it's actually good for the barbarians to invade (the ransom comes in handy). Further in the game, and as other civilizations keep bothering you, I've always found that ground-based units in strategical spots more than cover your sea borders. It's even good to do so, since enemies tend to land on either close to a city (already well-protected, if you did your homework right), or what they deem to be easier territory to land on: unoccupied. So one can use AI's responses against itself. I don't agree with the post someone made concerning creating or occupying a city in another continent teeming with other civilizations: the AI makes a VERY poor usage of terrain possibilities, so the city is likely to end up with not many free squares for production, plus the overall cost and timig of getting to own such a city could be better used in Knowledge production (a long-term play, I grant it, but it has never let me down).
Just my opinion, though.
Regards!

 

[rewster1]

I just played a whole game as the Aztecs (on Earth... builder/space ship type game)

I never built a fighting unit... only diplomats, settlers, and caravans. Barbarians are a steal, literally... you can buy them for a song, knights for ~50 gold... rush completing a barracks/switching to a knight yourself would cost just under 80 gold (assuming you had a shield or two to start). And cheap sails long before you'd have the tech yourself... unless you went right for it (which I wouldn't as I was playing isolationist... even my trade routes were local). There is the problem of not being able to buy units that are stacked, but if you have a couple already bought and maybe a couple units from huts, you should be able to take out the stack. Pop huts with a pack of four diplomats and buy yourself a cheap army if you get barbs. (I used to live in fear of the 8-barb hut explosion... now it's like "hey, instant army!")

The great thing about diplomats (and caravans) is that they don't have maintenance costs... so even though you have to have a little cash on hand to buy off attackers, having a diplomat instead of a phalanx defending your city is like +1 shield per turn forever.

Buying is always successful, so my favorite part about this strategy is that there isn't that annoying luck factor involved. Fighting is gambling... you could lose your 40 shield plus 1 per turn chariot even when the odds seemed in your favor... but your 30 shield plus 0 per turn diplomat will always be able to "win" the battle if you've got enough cash.

When the English came around, I bought their stupid triremes, for a pittance. When the Babylonians finally showed up off shore, I bought their ironclads. Theirs were a little expensive, but then I had my own ironclads at my disposal... when you buy a unit, it's a net 2 unit swing in your favor... you had 0 ironclads, they had 1, now they have 0 and you have 1. So even if it's twice as expensive as buying one in your own city, it's still break-even... and you can do it even regardless of peace treaties. And it wasn't quite twice as expensive, though it may have been close. Not that it mattered... the ironclads didn't show up until well into the first millenium AD, and I had so much cash by then a hundred gold wouldn't have made much difference.

I ended up having to wait until 1490 to launch my spaceship, because I built it in the 1200s before I found out (searching threads here) that I couldn't be successful with a full ship until 1490. In 1500, a turn before the end, a cruiser showed up a couple squares offshore. The game ended before I could buy it though.

Oh, and diplomats are great for early exploration... when you switch to democracy you don't have to hurry home or disband!

 

[Tenochtitlan]

Prbably a silly question, but why is it so important to protect coastlines? Early on the game, barbarians are the only real threat, and if defense of cities has been managed properly and a route of roads links all of them, then it's actually good for the barbarians to invade (the ransom comes in handy). Further in the game, and as other civilizations keep bothering you, I've always found that ground-based units in strategical spots more than cover your sea borders. It's even good to do so, since enemies tend to land on either close to a city (already well-protected, if you did your homework right), or what they deem to be easier territory to land on: unoccupied. So one can use AI's responses against itself. I don't agree with the post someone made concerning creating or occupying a city in another continent teeming with other civilizations: the AI makes a VERY poor usage of terrain possibilities, so the city is likely to end up with not many free squares for production, plus the overall cost and timig of getting to own such a city could be better used in Knowledge production (a long-term play, I grant it, but it has never let me down).
Just my opinion, though.
Regards!

Protecting coast lines is very useful when you get steam engine and later steel. Use your ironclads to sink the incoming ships. It's better to sink them before they land and they start pillaging and attacking. Besides, nothing is more gratifying than getting the 5 units killed message. The 9 units killed when sinking transports is another great classic.

 

[Osvaldo Manso]

Like others have said, other civs (invading from the sea) tend to focus on a couple of squares, normally as close as possible to their homeland. As I enjoy playing peaceful games, focusing on development, I want to avoid having enemy units placed (fortified or moving) inside my territory even when I'm in peace with that particular civ.

In fact, sometimes they occupy important squares (like squares with special resources) thus preventing you from getting any benefits out of it. Besides, they make moving your units much more difficult and slower although this can be solved with the use of diplomats (for allowing movement in adjacent tiles) and railroads.

Furthermore there is always the risk of sneak attacks if you let them move freely along your territory, specially in later stages of the game.

Normally when this happens I don't lose too much time with enemy units because they will keep invading regularly after being destroyed. I prefer to strike a surprise attack and conquer one of their cities (preferably an easy one) even if I am not interested in maintaining that city for long. Conquering one single city is normally enough for other civ offering peace. I accept so that I can focus on my own development. Normally this will keep them off your coasts.

 

[Sir_Lancelot]

Hit the AI where they live. At the very least, build a small city on their continent and rush city walls. Keep it stocked with your best defenders and at least one counterstrike unit.
One small city will act as a thorn in the AI's side that they cannot ignore. They will direct their energy there instead of your shores.

That probably works, but I question if building and protecting an unprofitable city far away is worth the effort. It sounds more cost-effective to just take out AI troops when they come to your country. Depending on your type of government, corruption is high in remote cities. But if you conquer a city from the AI, their loss will make it worth it.
This is what I'm thinking, but I may be wrong.

I ended up having to wait until 1490 to launch my spaceship, because I built it in the 1200s before I found out (searching threads here) that I couldn't be successful with a full ship until 1490. In 1500, a turn before the end, a cruiser showed up a couple squares offshore. The game ended before I could buy it though.

You can't launch the space ship before 1490?

Oh, and diplomats are great for early exploration... when you switch to democracy you don't have to hurry home or disband!

Sorry, but what do you mean with hurry home or disband?

 

[Valen]

You can't launch the space ship before 1490?

The travel time for a fully-loaded spaceship is 15 years. If you launch it in 1480, the landing date is 1495. The problem is, each turn takes 10 years. You have one turn where the date is 1490 and the next one is 1500. Since there is no turn on the year you landed, you don't get credit for going to Alpha Centauri. If you check the spaceship status in 1500, it simply says "Landed", but you don't have the points added to your score. I haven't done this in a while, but with the ship in a "landed" state, I don't think you can build another one. That means, the only way you can win the game is by conquest.
From 1500 to 1750, turns count 5 years each. A ship launched in 1490 will land in 1505 and you do have a turn in that year. But this first launch window closes on you in 1745. If you launch in 1750, the landing date is 1765. Unfortunately, turns from 1750 to 1850 count 2 years each and there are no odd year turns. Finally, in 1736, the second launch window opens and never closes.
By trial and error, it should be possible to find a spaceship configuration that takes 20 years to make the trip. This is a ship you can launch (almost) any time I'm sure someone has found the right combination and posted it here. That would mean checking old threads; I don't remember this coming up in the last year.

Sorry, but what do you mean with hurry home or disband?

Sad faces cause unrest in the home cities of units out of town when you start city check. Any city in disorder for two turns running will crash a democracy. You want to preserve democracy when too many units are out and about? Raise the luxury rate, make Elvises, hurry home or disband.
The long term solution is Women's Suffrage, Bach's Cathedral, Cure for Cancer, Shakespeare's Theater (until electronics) and yes, luxuries.

 

[Mize]

Valen, I'm pretty sure that someone here had calculated the parts you need for the spaceship to reach "on time", so you can theoretically launch it in the BC's. I'm sure the thread is buried here somewhere, but I don't have the time to dig it up now. Maybe later. Also, if you get your capital conquered the ship will return, even if it has already landed, and then you can actually build it again and really win.

Osvaldo, my usual playing style is very similar to yours, it seems. If I can't expand on an enemy continent or, as Sir Lancelot suggested, it's a better deal to fight them on home territory, I just occupy the squares of strategic importance. Like that mountaintop that keeps a zone of control over several shore squares. The enemy lands and is pinned between my rock and scissors, or rather my phalanx and catapult. Substitute for any defence/offence combination of units. After railroad it becomes even easier, because you can just keep a few catapults and cannons out in the open and on the rails of course. That way you can fend off even armor and mech. infantry if you're really desperate and falling behind in technology. Under Republic or Democracy it can be a real pain in the ass to keep defenders on all important squares if you don't have Bach's Cathedral or Women's Suffrage, but it is doable and mostly depends on geography.

The way I see it is that the really important squares are the production ones. Getting your grasslands occupied is more of a nuisance than a threat. Any unfortified unit in the open plain/desert/whatever is easy prey to even catapults. I mean, the odds of a catapult against a mech. inf are those of a milita vs. another milita. Even if you have to take a couple of turns to kill the invaders off, the city won't starve, because you probably have some wheat in the granary.

But on the other hand, if you get your coal mine or oil field occupied you could instantly lose some units if the city is relying on the shields produced there. And also, production squares tend to be easier to defend, so you don't want invaders to land their infantry on them.

Sir Lancelot... Feel funny writing that If I capture an enemy city I always try to hold it for as long as possible. If there is a lot of corruption, or if trade just isn't good, I strip it down to the basics and leave it to fend for itself supplying minimal reinforcements. I sell all unnecessary buildings and focus only on production of defenders and diplomats. Attacking units are better off homed in your main cities, not the colonies.

 

[RecycledElectro]

If I have one of more ships (sail, frigate, whatever) patrolling along my coastline, does it deter the AI from attacking that coastline?

I have a feeling that it does. Unprotected coastlines tend to take a pounding from other civs.

I also have the feeling that if you do protect a stretch of coastline, the opposing civs just attack somewhere else - somewhere that's not so well protected.

Any thoughts on this?

The AI seems to attack undefended cities. If you keep one fortified unit in each coastal city, the AI has a harder time attacking them.

As for sinking their boats...battleships have a decent ability to just sit there, but for patrolling, it would seem that bombers are better.

 

[danheskett]

It may not work for every situation, but it is often worth a try: Strike first.
Hit the AI where they live. At the very least, build a small city on their continent and rush city walls. Keep it stocked with your best defenders and at least one counterstrike unit.
One small city will act as a thorn in the AI's side that they cannot ignore. They will direct their energy there instead of your shores.

I have a similar strategy that I have found works really well. What I do is is scout out the main block of the AI's land mass, and find an area with 2 or 3 cities. I stock up on coin for a bit, and launch a Sail or Frigate with 2 or 3 diplomats. I avoid units, and incite a revolt on a moderate sized city (5 is a good starting point usually). Immediately after with another diplomat I make peace (pay tribute if you have to), and then stock that city in enemy terrority with good defensive units and one or two good offensive units. I will often sell something not useful and buy city walls as soon possible.

Chances are you will eventually see that city pounded to dust or lost, but it will seriously take up the AI's time and resources.

 

[Valen]

I discovered the hard way that AI ships can unload their units directly into an undefended city.
If you are in a republic or democracy when this happens (as I was), you can't even strike back. Since none of your units has engaged in battle, there has been no declaration of war.

 

[Osvaldo Manso]

I discovered the hard way that AI ships can unload their units directly into an undefended city.
If you are in a republic or democracy when this happens (as I was), you can't even strike back. Since none of your units has engaged in battle, there has been no declaration of war.

This is interesting. More or less the same happens when you capture or destroy (depending on the city size) an undefended city belonging to a civilization with which you have established a peace treaty.
In fact, capturing or destroying an undefended city does not seem to break the treaty i.e. declaration of war. However, it does seem to "suspend" the peace treaty because the next time they make contact they will offer a peace treaty.
So, early in the game, I always search for new cities from neighbouring civs and quickly capture/destroy them before they build a unit to defend the city because it is not considered a declaration of war and it is an efficient way to minimize the territorial growth of neighbouring civs.

 

[Tristan_C]

Default diplomatic state is war. If this is an uncontacted civ, you can strike back from the sea or air because you are technically at war with them until they hit you with an emissary (which can only happen between adjacent land units). When the enemy land units are dead, move a land unit into the city to recapture.

You can buy the city back with a diplomat at any time. Probably the best option.

 

[Osvaldo Manso]

Default diplomatic state is war. If this is an uncontacted civ, you can strike back from the sea or air because you are technically at war with them until they hit you with an emissary (which can only happen between adjacent land units).

Yes, that's right! Just to clarify my previous post, I was referring to the fact that invading undefended cities from a civ with which you have made contact and established peace does not start a war.

On the contrary, if you attack any unit (be it a military unit or a special unit like Settlers, Caravans or Diplomats) it will immediately start a war.

I think that's funny because generally speaking for me a city is more valuable than a unit.

Early in the game, you can leave a city undefended for a while without worrying too much about an attack even when another civilization has military units placed in tiles very close or even adjacent to that city. If you made peace with them they will not attack. However, bear in mind that other civs might suddenly appear. If you have not made contact with them, they are at war with you, just like Tristan_C has explained, and so they will not hesitate in capturing or destroying your unguarded city.