Qin Shi Huang: Zhuge Nu on Noble

[Saketh]

I'm trying a new strategy with Qin Shi Huang. Basically, I try to snag a few critical early wonders and, with the generated GP points (which tend to make a GP just after I research Iron Working), burn a Great Engineer for Machinery. With Zhuge Nu (often badly transliterated as Chu-Ko-Nu) and possibly Catapults in BCE, I proceed to wreck my nearest enemy and fortify the spoils. The rest of the strategy is not unique to Qin.


I'm trying to hone this strategy to achieve my goal as quickly as possible. Basically, I want to get to Machinery while building up a war machine, so that I can pump out Zhuge Nu as quickly and efficiently as possible.

I'm having issues with deciding what sort of and how many cities I should build. In addition, my military strategy is far from perfect -- what should compose my army, besides the obvious backbone of Zhuge Nu? What wonders should I get?

Thanks for any suggestions you may have for implementing this strategy, or playing with Qin in general.

 

[Cam_H]

Saketh,

The Wonder you're after would be The Pyramids if you're wanting to reap early Great Engineer points, and Masonry is a brief diversion off the Machinery bee-line. Of course once you get Metal Casting you can build a Forge and run a Specialist Engineer from there.

I am not sure if you're playing with the Warlords expansion or not, but if so The Great Wall is probably a better choice again due to the cost comparison versus the expensive Pyramids. The 'problem' is that if you do pop a Great Engineer from The Great Wall and The Pyramids are still in play, you might defer your Machinery lightbulb for rushing The Pyramids.

The Hanging Gardens is another early WoW that produces Great Engineer points, but Mathematics is not on the Machinery bee-line.

Sisiutil's ALC - Qin game might be of interest where The Oracle gave him Machinery. The proposal to lightbulb Great Merchants through The Caste System towards Machinery was also proposed as an option in this thread by Mutineer.

On stacks, the counters to 'the Chinese unique unit' are mounted units (Horse Archers, War Elephants, Knights), so you'll want to take a couple of Spears to include in your SoDs.

Construction is a long way off the Machinery bee-line, so you'll need to assess whether bringing down city defences with Catapults is really that vital, or whether losing a few extra units to save a lot of time and the capacity to strike early is worth the trade-off. It depends to some extent as to your trading options and other diplomatic dynamics.

Others more familiar with this strategy will chime in I'm sure.

 

[mice]

I'm having issues with deciding what sort of and how many cities I should build. In addition, my military strategy is far from perfect -- what should compose my army, besides the obvious backbone of Zhuge Nu?

About cities, at least two good production cities. So if your capital can produce a lot of military, then found one more as well, probably on horses or metal.

The stack should have anti horse, so some spears, and a few chariots. These are anti axe. The Zhuge Nu (cool transliteration) is anti melee as I'm sure you know, but the chariots really kill axes, and they will be able to pillage as you move.

This is the next problem, how to pay for the expansion. The machinery beeline will take you far from CoL and currency , as Cam noted, and so you will have trouble paying for your new cities until you can get these techs.

If the capital is great for commerce, then you need other cities to be production/unit pumps, and the capital can fund research through to CoL and Currency while you attack.

If the capital is a killer prod city you may need to survive on pillage money and then extort techs from your victims, as well as tech trade with machinery to grab CoL/Currency.

Without catapults, even the Zhuge Nu will find it hard to keep conquering so your strat will apply to an extended early war period, and after that it will have to slow down to build a more conventional stack.

Against longbows you will have a big advantage with the collateral damage done by the Zhuge Nu, but they will mostly die. Maybe drill is the best promo.

Other posters with better knowledge of the crossbow promotions can help you here.

 

[DutchJob]

Cho's AND cats before Christ means you need a very good science rate. from the start you must first go for some cottages and a library or two/three for this.

Cho's also need a lot of hammers. build two decent production centers. go barb hunting for XP's so you can build a early HE.

it is of no use of being capable of building Cho's (or Zhuge Nu's) while not being able to produce in reasonable timetables.

so get two production cities. one very good one for the Cho's. One for the siege- and defensive outfits.

since youre expeditionary force will be expensive for their age conquer some good land with it that will give you lots of resources so you can grow.

cottages+library>go machinery (start production Cho's)>math>construction (cats)> all tech for improving economy (CoL, Cur and Calendar) while building army.

and last: never forget stackprotectors. and not just one. no three sounds better. last night I lost my entire SoD because of a verocious counterattack of +/- 25 HA's plus support by Monty. this shouldn't be a problem in the classical age though.

 

[DutchJob]

ps: drill promo's all the way. gives you awesome riflemen.

 

[FuRRie]

I've played around a lot with Chinese and their Chu-Ko-Nu (yess I use the wrong name ).
The ways to get that GE early on has allready been explained, I would with to point out something else.
Chu-Ko-Nu's get stronger the more you mass them, because of Collateral Damage.
Keep this in mind and don't attack with too few, add some Spears to counter those Mounted counters and (as always) throw some healers in there.

 

[oyzar]

just do oracle for metalcasting and build a forget in another city to get a GE before you get a GP. You can ofc build pyramids / great wall in that city to hurry it up.

 

[futurehermit]

just do oracle for metalcasting and build a forget in another city to get a GE before you get a GP. You can ofc build pyramids / great wall in that city to hurry it up.

Yep, although this can be dicy. You have to time it well--get that forget chopped asap.

To hurry tech speed to construction I would run scientists instead of working cottages. Gives more beakers earlier.

Definitely bring spears in your stack lest you have it completely wiped out by harchers.

 

[oyzar]

With industrious this realy shouldnt be a problem...

 

[OctavianFlu]

Try reading this, and give it a go.

I've been able to get Cho-Nu-Ku by 650BC at best.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=218562

 

[carl corey]

I've done a Machinery beeline in a Qin game:

- found a second city
- as fast as possible chop Great Wall (no more barb worries) in the capital
- beeline for Oracle and chop it in the second city to get Metal Casting
- forge in the capital, hire Engineer Specialist to get GE to lightbulb Machinery