Question regarding Emperor level playing and ICS

[ongwin]

Emperor level games
Greetings everybody, I've tried and failed on both attempts at emperor level games. I decided to move on after 3 straight wins on Monarch (So i've graduated? Yay) My biggest problem on emperor level is keeping up in tech. During my Monarch games, I would concentrate on one tech, for example Monarchy and then trade it for everything else. In games where I did not go for Monarchy, I would trade whatever I've learnt with the AI and thats how I survived, using the "Day Trader" trick.

I have no idea why, but on my Emperor games, I am unable to trade what I have researched because the AI already has it...EVERYTHING. Whatever new things I've learnt, the AI already has, all of them. Only in the very early part, I am still able to trade starting techs, but after that I cannot trade my researced techs. Because of this, my military is outdated and I cannot fight them. On my game I was playing as the Germans and I used 10 archers to fight 2 pikemen, all of my archers died, 2 of those archers were elite...
Any tips or comments are greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance.

Infinite City Sprawl (ICS)
I am a bit confused with the concept of ICS. If I am not wrong, it is trying to maximize the land you have by having as many cities as possible right? From what I know, when a city starts to have enough culture, it expands beyond the initial 8 workable squares into a 20 workable squares.

1. How close should the cities be placed for it to be ICS?
2. If we place them side by side, as utilising only the 8 inital tiles, wouldn't we be wasting a lot of potential when it's borders expand to work on 20 tiles?
3. In this case, the city wouldn't have a lot of space to work on right? Then how to be productive?

Thanks to everybody in advance for answering my questions!

 

[laconic]

At emp and diety, I always set science to 0% and day trade techs. You can only build 6-8 cities at emp or 4-6 cities at diety from the beginning because AI build settles much more fast than you.

I play like a mole and donate money to everyone if they don't like me for the first 2 ages. The only way you can win is let them attack with eachother.

Don't try to attack anyone by yourself. You have no chance to win any battle before industry age or morden age.

If you play China, you have a chance to attack AI once you get Raide.

Your growth depends on how they fight with eachother.

Pity me? :-(

 

[homeyg]

At emp and diety, I always set science to 0% and day trade techs. You can only build 6-8 cities at emp or 4-6 cities at diety from the beginning because AI build settles much more fast than you.

I play like a mole and donate money to everyone if they don't like me for the first 2 ages. The only way you can win is let them attack with eachother.

Don't try to attack anyone by yourself. You have no chance to win any battle before industry age or morden age.

If you play China, you have a chance to attack AI once you get Raide.

Your growth depends on how they fight with eachother.

Pity me? :-(

Wrong, wrong, wrong!!! It is perfectly possible to have more than 8 cities if you only concentrate on building only settlers/workers/troops during the early game. Letting the AI attack eachother is not the only way you can win. In fact it has nothing to do with you winning if Persia attacks China rather than you attacking China. Just 10 catapults/trebuchets can make the difference in an early war (referring to your statement about not attacking anyone by yourself, it is very possible to attack anyone, even a major superpower, and conquer them). Your early growth does not depend on what the AI does, it depends on what YOU do. If you play smart and know when to go to war and when to stop expanding, you will win. Besides, none of this is answering his question anyway.

 

[ongwin]

homeyg: Day trading is taking a tech a exchanging it with other civs for other techs and gold/luxuries. This allows you to keep up in tech. For example, you research tech A and trade it for tech B. Then you take tech B which you've just aquired and trade it for Tech C or some cash or whatever. Get the idea?

Iaconic: I can't trade any techs because the AI already has them. I don't even have any money to buy the techs for them, let alone do any day trading.

Can anybody help me with my ICS question? Thanks!

 

[homeyg]

homeyg: Day trading is taking a tech a exchanging it with other civs for other techs and gold/luxuries. This allows you to keep up in tech. For example, you research tech A and trade it for tech B. Then you take tech B which you've just aquired and trade it for Tech C or some cash or whatever. Get the idea?

Iaconic: I can't trade any techs because the AI already has them. I don't even have any money to buy the techs for them, let alone do any day trading.

Can anybody help me with my ICS question? Thanks!

ongwin, I edited my post at the same time you posted again, sorry. Anyway, don't worry about using a certain city placement. It is going to be different in each game anyway. Just do what suits you.

About the tech trading: Emperor is still to low a difficulty level to be messing around without researching. I research and I can catch up and pass the AI late in the game (well really early Industrial). The key is to research techs the AI doesn't go for very often, like Writing, then profit from those techs.

Edit: Remember to always research at 100% early on unless you have to use the luxury slider for happiness purposes.

 

[Garbarsardar.jr]

read this : http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3acad_montoemp.shtml

and this on ICS http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62851 but things have changed on C3C so try this too: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=76619

 

[Tomoyo]

Another thing: Persist!

There's no situation where a win is not possible. Even if you are an age behind (like me in my last game), you just need to stay with the game because time is on your side.

There's nothing you can't do if you try hard enough. Your wings are your dreams and off with the sky! Or not.

 

[homeyg]

Another thing: Persist!

There's no situation where a win is not possible. Even if you are an age behind (like me in my last game), you just need to stay with the game because time is on your side.

There's nothing you can't do if you try hard enough. Your wings are your dreams and off with the sky! Or not.

Did you win that game?

 

[laconic]

homeyq, I can only build more than 6 cities at diety if I got 2 cow or wheat from the beginning. Everytime when I build 2 settles, AI has already build cities around me. However, if I am lucky and stand in a corner maybe I still have a chance. I micromanager my workers, no way to build even equal with AI. If you got German close to you, even you give him 2-4 gpt, he will still attack you. The only way to win the first combat is load and save. His archer can beat my spearman easily but mine can't.

If AI didn't attack with eachother, you won't have a chance. I donate money to everybody and let them happy to fight, not me. Then I can get growth and pickup right side to join in.

ongwin, If you put both bar to 0%, you can get enough money to buy techs from AI. Sometime you need give them gpt to get an advanced tech. Once you get a tech, sell to others and earn a little bit back.

BTW, I build cities at 3.5 or 4 tiles away my capital from the beginning unless you need to grab a lux or resource. If you have India, China, France around you, it maybe safe to build cities more loose. If you have German, Atz, never think about that. They will attack even you have spearman in the city.

 

[dmanakho]

Switch to C3C. If i understand correctly ICS doesn't matter in Conquests.
You can place your cities based on geographical preferences instead.
And that is what i like to do.

 

[homeyg]

homeyq, I can only build more than 6 cities at diety if I got 2 cow or wheat from the beginning. Everytime when I build 2 settles, AI has already build cities around me. However, if I am lucky and stand in a corner maybe I still have a chance. I micromanager my workers, no way to build even equal with AI. If you got German close to you, even you give him 2-4 gpt, he will still attack you. The only way to win the first combat is load and save. His archer can beat my spearman easily but mine can't.

If AI didn't attack with eachother, you won't have a chance. I donate money to everybody and let them happy to fight, not me. Then I can get growth and pickup right side to join in.

It looks to me like you aren't building a big enough military. If you build a larger military, they won't attack you as often and you won't have to give them money all of the time. Remember, only concentrate on building troops/workers/settlers for awhile. Then build up your infrastructure, mainly focusing on courthouses/libraries/marketplaces. Don't wait for the AI to destroy eachother, you can easily destroy it with a sufficient amount of artillery units!

 

[laconic]

homeyq, trust me, i didn't lie. I follow troops/workers/settles, once I get 2 settles, I am already surrounded by AIs. I don't know what map size you are playing. I play small. At emp, I may get a chance to start at corner, however, at diety, most of the time I am surrounded by 2 or 3 AIs. I am happy if I can build 6 cities at that level, but sometime I can only build 4 or 5 if I didn't get cow or wheat.

 

[SesnOfWthr]

I don't know what map size you are playing. I play small.

I would guess that this is a major part of the miscommunication between you two.

As for ICS, although corruption was changed/fixed in Conquests, ICS is still a viable strat, and one that some people feel is exploitive. It basically requires that you build a lot of small cities rather than a few larger ones. Obviously, Feudalism would be a good govt of choice here, because of the higher unit support you get for towns. It is well suited to early wars, because with good land, you can just mass produce cheap units and inundate the opposition. It seems less viable later as units become more expensive. It would also be well suited to an attempt at a cultural victory, as a ton of lib/temples, especially doubled, will add up quickly. For an ICS strat, you may be better off claiming large chunks of land, and filling it in later.

$0.02

 

[Tomoyo]

Did you win that game?

No

small

Oh.

 

[nullspace]

If you really are hemmed in by the AI civs, that is a good time to densely space your cities. I guess the extreme version of tightly packing your cities is what's called ICS.

The idea is that, since you have a limited amount of space, you want to use it all as soon as possible by having a citizen working on each tile ASAP. In general, 2 cities will add population to your empire twice as fast as one city, so you want to found many cities. So create your cites with the pattern city-space-space-city, or even sometimes city-space-city. This requires extra settlers, but you'll have a citizen working every tile within your borders quicker than you space the cities more loosely. The tight spacing also saves on walking time for your settlers and lessens distance corruption.

Now that you're fully using your own territory, you need to build military units and win some more land. Since your population is large compared to your amount of land, you can build units quickly, and because you have many cities, you can support a lot for free. Use artillery units like catapults and trebuchets if you're facing superior forces. If they knock of a hp or two from whatever you're attacking, you have a much better chance of winning. You'll find that you can cary out long campaigns with very few losses if you use lots of artillery. Another bonus is that you don't need a barracks to build a fully-effective catapult.

Once you get more land, you can abandon some of your cities to free up room for the others to grow. Then you can start building improvements like temples, libraries and marketplaces. Well, that's what my plan is whenever the AI's don't leave me much room to settle.

 

[homeyg]

I play small.

There's the problem right there! I don't play small, I play standard most of the time. My first few Emperor games I played tiny and got my butt massively kicked!

 

[ongwin]

For an ICS strat, you may be better off claiming large chunks of land, and filling it in later.

Okay, thanks for the advice, but let me get this straight. What do you mean by claiming large chunks of land? Do you mean spreading out my cities to maximize the city potential or using ICS.

When you saying filling it in later, does that meaning building a temple to expand its 8-tile border to 20-tiles or do you mean building more cities inbetween the already spaced out cities to fill up the gap, even though the territory may overlap?

 

[Tomoyo]

There's the problem right there! I don't play small, I play standard most of the time. My first few Emperor games I played tiny and got my butt massively kicked!

There's something about tiny Emporer that makes it seem easy... Once I tried Emperor OCC when I was a Monarch player and I WON

 

[homeyg]

There's something about tiny Emporer that makes it seem easy... Once I tried Emperor OCC when I was a Monarch player and I WON

Well mine were really hard for some reason. The AI would have SoDs containing 300 units. God only knows how they did that, but I did witness it twice!