Quick Chats?

[Bill_in_PDX]

I think we should discuss the addition of laws which would allow the President to conduct a pre-approved action (via polling) that is necessary to determine follow on actions.

Examples of this might include making an approved tech trade, and then posting the updated save so that discussion and decisions can be made in the forums without using up a full turn chat.

I further think that it doesn't have to be done in secret, the Prez may well schedule the quick chat publically, but that he would not need a turn chat instruction thread, nor would any action other than making the deal or taking the specifically approved steps be allowed.

I will attempt to draft up a law on this, but for now, discuss!

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

The following laws impact this proposed change:

Constitution of Fanatika - Article K: Game actions will be played out during a public turn chat.

Code of Standards - Section B: Turn chat instruction thread...

Code of Standards - Section D: Turn chat procedures...

Code of Standards - Section E: Turn chat rules...

Code of Standards - Section I: Game Schedule...

Any changes to the laws would require synching up these divergent areas of rules, but I think it can be done via the following proposed changes (note that I use the term Quick Chat to describe this, but certainly there must be a better name for it)

==============
Proposed Change(s) to Code of Standards

ADD Section L - Quick Chats

1) There are times that the nation may need to conduct a single action within the game, in order to open discussion on a wide variety of outcomes from that action. For these events, the President may call for a Quick Chat to be held at a time not previously scheduled.

2) Restrictions on Quick Chats:
a) The President is the only official who can call for a Quick Chat.
b) A Quick Chat can only be used once between regularly scheduled chats, in accordance with CoS, Section I.
c) A Quick Chat is held in the #demogame chat room, and citizens are encouraged to attend.
d) A Quick Chat can be used to take ONE specific game action (such as making a trade deal).
e) The action taken in a Quick Chat must have been approved via a valid official poll.
f) The President may NOT delegate DP authority for the conduct of a Quick Chat.

3) Quick Chat Procedure:
a) The President posts a notice that he is calling for Quick Chat, and refers to the poll approving the action to be taken. Note that conducting a Quick Chat is at the descretion of the sitting President, however the action to be taken must be approved by the people via polling.
b) It is permissable for the President to post a poll, with a note that it will be used for a Quick Chat.
c) The President must give 4 hours notice prior to holding the Quick Chat.
d) The Quick Chat game save is then posted in the notice thread and in the last game chat thread.

ADD Code of Standards - Section B

1) B. - Quick Chat instructions are not subject to the laws of this article, see CoS, Section L for those requirements.

ADD Code of Standards - Section D

8) - Quick Chat procedures are not subject to the laws of this article, see CoS, Section L for those requirements.

EDIT Code of Standards - Section E

10) The Designated Player retains the right to end the chat turn at his/her discretion. However, if the turn being held is a Quick Chat, then the game must be saved and closed, and no further actions taken once the Quick Turn event has been carried out.

ADD Code of Standards - Section I

1) D. - Quick Chat procedures are not subject to the laws of this article, see CoS, Section L for those requirements.

Note: assuming we require the quick chat to be held publically, there is no conflict with these changes and the Constitution, though I would ask for Judicial concurrance on that point.

 

[Eklektikos]

Looks great to me Bill. A nice solution

 

[Chieftess]

Yeah, one of my ideas from DG1... I know I requested something like that back in, I think term 3. (might've even been PI#6.. ).

 

[donsig]

This proposal certainly seems workable. the ability to perform certain actions between regular chats should contribute to the ability of our citizens to make plans via the forums.

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

Don't worry CT, I am not trying to take credit for the idea , I am just trying to get it passed and into law.

 

[Octavian X]

I think I'm missing the point. The quick chat would allow a single action to take place without altering the turn chat schedule. This seems pointless, since at least 48 hours must pass the make a poll official. If the process for the quick chat began immieadiately after a turn chat, there would be less than 24 hours left after the action to discuss. I don't about others, but I feel this is way to little time to discuss incraesed possibilities.

Barring that pointlessness I see, this is an excellent proposal.

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

well pointlessness is in the eye of the beholder, as a quick poll is also an official poll by definition, and some chats have been 4-5 days apart.

 

[donsig]

Polls can also (possibly) become valid (and even binding) very fast if enough people vote in it quick enough and overwhelmingly for one option.

What about the idea of having the president use a valid poll or an council vote or a senate vote to approve a quick chat?

 

[Shaitan]

Octavian has a good point. Except in very rare circumstances, these rules would never be applicable. Quick poll is a valid poll but it can't be used for anything with a duration. Just about anything that would be needed in a quick chat would have a duration, therefore not be applicable for a quick poll and therefore a minimum of 48 hours to poll.

donsig's idea of allowing a Council Vote to hold a quick chat would make it all work. This may not be popular though as it requires decision making by a single person and also gives more power to an office. These have traditionally been viewed as bad policy by our legislature.

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

Shaitan, we have already violated your definition of quick polls on multiple occasions then.

I really don't care how it is implimented though, as I think we do need some kind of mechanism for this.

 

[Shaitan]

Maybe we need to change the definition for quick polls. Or remove them altogether and adjust the regular poll requirements.

 

[FortyJ]

While I appreciate all this effort, I wonder actually how practical this is.

Currently we have a turn chat every 3 or 4 days. As proposed, the Quick Chat would need to be approved by an official poll. This requires 72 hours to get from initial discussion post to poll approval at the soonest.

Even if we are able to squeeze in a Quick Chat between regularly scheduled Turn Chats, the results from the Quick Chat will not be able to properly discussed and proposed actions polled in time.

 

[FortyJ]

I also agree with Shaitan. We should look closely at restructuring the uses for Quick Polls and Spot votes.

 

[Octavian X]

It is possible, I believe, for this system to be a bit more workable. Perhaps a Senate vote, rather than an official poll, would be a way of making the decision. A senate vote could be carried out in a significantly smaller amount of time, while giving the people good representation because there are more senators then councilmembers. A senate vote would not take more than 24 hours, leaving adequate time for discussion.
Better yet, we could combine the two votes for greater represenation and less time.

 

[Shaitan]

Remember though that there are not always more senators than councilors. In fact, we won't actually have more senators than councilmembers until some time in T5 when the new President finishes filling all of the empty chairs.

For a very long time in this game there was only a single senator.

 

[donsig]

Well, I see a good idea is getting bogged down again. This whole debate started because I suggested we trade banking to either the Zulus or Iroquois right now and post a new save so we could look at the next options (like, does anyone have chemistry yet?). That's a trade without a duration and therefore can be covered under current quick poll rules. I for one would not worry about what I used a quick poll for since the stiffest penalty for ill use of quick polls is a warning.

Perhaps we need to broaden the discussion a bit. Forum discussion and polling has been minimal. Decisions are once again being brought to the chat. The latest round of tech trades is an example. The last chat was basically a debate about how to pay for banking. The next will be a debate about who to get gunpowder. This will be followed by a debate over which techs to get next from who and how to pay for them. Things that should be hammered out in the forums but can't (in part) because we don't have all the information that will be available at the chat. So do we get gunpowder and stop the chat again? With the strategy we're employing we'll be doing (or should be doing) alot of tech trading so this problem will arise continually.
Turn chats are once a gain marathon events. The pre-turn has to be made more efficient. Perhaps instrad of a quick chat every so often as the need arises we should have a pre-chat a day or two before each chat. The pre-chat would never involve pressing enter but could be used to set build queues, do approved trades, do city micromanagement, set tax rates, rush approved improvements, upgrade units, and things like that. Of course any actions taken would have to come from a proper pre-chat instruction thread. The pre-chat could also be public though since it would be rather automatic (following instructions only) there would be no need for any decision making. The DP would have to note any instructions that couldn't be carried out (and why) so that the issues could be addressed in the forums. The pre-chat could be entrusted to the CoC so that the President is not forced to hold 4 chats per week. This should reduce the real chat's pre-turn to almost nothing allowing the President to actually play the game in a reasonable time.

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

I agree with donsig.

Once again, we have suggestions related to the game being bogged down by folks who will stop by long enough to post dissention, and then bounce back over to RPG to continue their normal business.

The cynical side of me notes that I should have posted that a quick chat gets extra gold per turn and then I would wager the RPG crowd would be jumping all over it...

Something needs to be done, no matter if it is a pre-turn chat, quick chat, or something else. The state of the actual demo game is appalling, and frankly not worth the effort any more.

 

[Octavian X]

I am saddened, yet I agree, with Bill's diagnosis. Perhaps this is our DG's mid life crisis. I would comment more, but I need to go off to visit more relatives.

 

[Veera Anlai]

<Devil's Advocate>Oh, yeah Bill! Would a Quick Turn Chat allow RPG members to get their salaries like a normal Turn Chat does?</Devil's Advocate>

Currently, a Quick Turn Chat would be fundamentally illegal, but I do support new legislation to legalize it. A quick glance reveals no problems with Bill's wording of the laws, and I place my support behind them. It'll be a pain in the butt during Judicial Review to analyze every line, but such is the sacrifice ;-)