Range fire worthless?

[paperhero2]

I have played all 5 previous civs, and range fire, for me, always trumped direct combat. Now with the latest patch of civ6, range fire seems almost worthless. I am playing China on Deity, and as such my units are not as advanced as my opponent. I have 6 corps artillery s pounding away at one modern tank army only doing 5 damage each attack. At this rate he is getting as much experience as damage, and before I can kill him he promotes to the next level repairing all the damage I have inflected. Thankfully he just stood there along with a helicopter army. If the 2 of them would of attacked, they would of routed the 11 units I had in the area. Granted my army is geared to take out city s, but for those 2 units to stop my entire advance I think is crazy.

In another example I have a battleship going after a tank army at sea. Every time I attack with my battleship I do only 5 points of damage on the transport. I dog the transport for 4 turns with my battleship hitting it every turn, still the transport just keeps sailing. Now I bring in 2 stealth bombers into the attack, and they only do 5 points of damage each. Finally I have one of my city's attack it, and now it finally is in the red. The next turn it promotes to the next level, repairing much of the damage I have inflicted. I gave up attacking it for I needed those resources to help defend my city s.

 

[blasto]

Wow.. I feel the complete opposite.. I seem to have good luck "kiting" units using geography and pick off units with ranged with no issues. Once I get extra range and/or extra attack promos its almost OP.

In your case you needed the right unit for the job I think.. AT's.

 

[zyx]

In Civ VI there are two different kinds of ranged units: siege and "normal" ranged units. Siege units suck, when bombarding military units, like your artillery versus the tank.
Killing embarked units in Civ VI is almost impossible, because you cannot really damage them, which might help the AI, when doing naval invasions, but it is a little bit annoying.

 

[CBE Player]

Wow.. I feel the complete opposite.. I seem to have good luck "kiting" units using geography and pick off units with ranged with no issues. Once I get extra range and/or extra attack promos its almost OP.

In your case you needed the right unit for the job I think.. AT's.

...or one nuke.
Always satisfying...

 

[blasto]

True, but not for defending.

 

[CBE Player]

True, but not for defending.

True your own lands might be too badly damaged, but then again, you'll have won the fight/war very quickly and can rebuild just as quickly. just move units out of harms way prior to launch and don't hit your own city if possible.

 

[Tech Osen]

I'm more shocked at the fact your enemy actually had modern tanks and helicopters...

 

[jollywonk]

In Civ VI there are two different kinds of ranged units: siege and "normal" ranged units. Siege units suck, when bombarding military units, like your artillery versus the tank.
Killing embarked units in Civ VI is almost impossible, because you cannot really damage them, which might help the AI, when doing naval invasions, but it is a little bit annoying.

This is right - if you haven't noticed yet (it's not advertised, only in detail stats), siege units get -17 combat vs units, while ranged units get -17 attacking cities. -17 is a huge (yuge?) modifier...your artillery corps was actually worse than a level 1 field cannon when fighting a tank, which is essentially bringing an industrial unit against a modern unit - not to mention a tank can get +7 defense vs ranged at level 1. Against tanks, I think you've got two primary options - your own tanks, or AT crews.

Btw, bombers and stealth bombers also suffer from the -17 modifier against units, while fighters get -17 vs cities. So, look to get a fighter with the +17 vs cav promotion (I think it's level 3) going against tanks, rather than bombers.

 

[Victoria]

Well said jelly, the right tool for the job is needed.

However, anything at sea should die pretty quick in combat but when galleys try to kill horsemen in boats, they must be seahorses or something

 

[jollywonk]

Well said jelly, the right tool for the job is needed.

However, anything at sea should die pretty quick in combat but when galleys try to kill horsemen in boats, they must be seahorses or something

Yeah, it makes no sense that embarked units seem to play at full strength while embarked...I forget what the Civ 5 modifier was, but it's silly right now.

 

[Jabulani]

I play on emperor and each game my ranged units easily wipe out ai cities, 4-5 are enough to conquer all the capitols easily, after many turns of distant fire.

Maybe on Deity the matter is different, I don't know.

 

[joncnunn]

Basically in Civ VI: Siege weapons are for attacking cities (and encampments) ; other ranged units are really only for attacking units.
Exceptions:
1. Once the city's (or encampment) defenses are down (or if the opponent didn't bother to build walls to begin with and doesn't have the civic defenses), then the other ranged units start doing decent damage to city / encampment's health.
2. You still appear to get XP from firing the ranged unit at a city whose walls are healthy; so if there's no unit it can fire upon, it's still worth it to get closer to the next promotion.

Meanwhile, due to the restrictions on movement and fire: ranged units are normally better for attacking units than siege ones.

 

[Silverdawn]

Against tanks, I think you've got two primary options - your own tanks, or AT crews

Helicopters would also be ok against tanks, no?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I didn't have much trouble with using arty and rocket arty armies. Take the grape shot promotion line.

 

[Heklios]

I am extremely happy they emphasized the role of the units in your army.

Siege Class are strong against cities.
Other units are weak against cities.

Isn't that great ?
It gives you a very solid reason to diversify your army, that both makes sense gameplay wise, and is historically accurate as well.

When I noticed the "-%damage" of my archers against cities and the "-%damage" of my bombard against the enemy units, this instantly received a thumbs up from me.

In Civ5 you could just rush down to Artillery, build 10 of them and end the game from there. Zzz.

I believe once again the OP is just another case of "fear of change".

 

[redwings1340]

Yeah, it makes no sense that embarked units seem to play at full strength while embarked...I forget what the Civ 5 modifier was, but it's silly right now.

It's balanced by the fact that your melee ships don't take any damage while attacking embarked units though. Sure, you may not be able to decimate the embarked army quite as quickly as in V, but your ships will all survive in the process.

Ghandi's Varu fleet did not match up well against my ironclads and frigates.

 

[Victoria]

It's balanced by the fact that your melee ships don't take any damage while attacking embarked units though. Sure, you may not be able to decimate the embarked army quite as quickly as in V, but your ships will all survive in the process.

I load my army up and have 2 galleys in front and go down the coastline to attack Norway.
In front of my army are 6 embarked heavy chariots. He can build more of the blighters faster than I can kill them.

FFS

 

[jollywonk]

Helicopters would also be ok against tanks, no?

Two issues - they unlock 2 techs later, by which time you are dead, and they cost 600 production vs the 400 production of an AT crew (and a whopping 3 more maintenance), making them very sub-optimal as a counter.

I load my army up and have 2 galleys in front and go down the coastline to attack Norway.
In front of my army are 6 embarked heavy chariots. He can build more of the blighters faster than I can kill them.

Not being able to kill embarked units in any reasonable time is the primary issue there - this is reason or disincentive #724 why you don't need to put much effort into building a navy. You can move your troops through water with no real concern about an opposing navy. The biggest issue I've encountered on offense is just being blocked by a galley, not actually being killed, and I just went back to shore at that point. I don't think we want embarked units instantly dying, but it'd be nice if they could be killed in perhaps 2 turns....maybe slap a -15 strength modifier for embarked units on there and we'd have more reason to build combat ships.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I don't think we want embarked units instantly dying

Actually, what's wrong with this from a design perspective? I thought that units being sitting ducks at sea and getting one-shotted to be reasonable. Naval is weak enough on average that nerfing it is strange, especially when you know going in that people can just settle 1 or more off coast to lower its ability to make any land plays at all.