Religous problem!

[ThePersian]

Hello i am a long time Civ fan. I personaly feel that the game has achived an intelecutal depth like no other game before. Its somewhat relistic simulation of the world has allowed me to bring my history projects to life.

I simply can't wait for the new civ to come out. I have read all the info, twice! But i see a problem in how the game is going to work. The religions first off have no special character to them ( i understand this is a move to keep the produces from being sued). but the religions are discoverd at diffrent times, so the person to get the first religion will have a great advantage over the riligons that are yet to come.

I want to know how the game plans to balence out the religous aspect of the game, becuse it is very abstract to me.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Not necessarily an advantage. In many cases, its possible that there will be more civs or more religions. The civ who discovers a religion won't be the only one with that religion, they'll just have the Holy City (which you can conquer anyway ).

 

[ThePersian]

Yes but would the first religion not render the others obsolite. For example would you pick a religion that has 1 guy on your side or 12 guys? If i have read correctly religous influinces causes unbalence in your Civ so why not pick the side with the 12 guys rather then the one guy.

I am simply suggeting that due to the nature of this new religous system, since no religion has any special attribut it would be likely that everyone is going with the most common and likely the first religon to be resherched.

 

[Meleager]

You have a point.
By the time latter religions become available it is possible that the prior religions would have coqurerd (i mean converted ) the world.

If you change to a new religion you could find yourself in a tight spot.

 

[Mellian]

I know I will edit in a new religion called the religion of me.

-mellian

 

[Invisible Rhino]

I want to know what happens if you are the first to discover more than one religion technology. Do you get to choose which one? Do you get mutiple holy cities? what happens?

 

[Meleager]

Think Jeruslahem (spelling ). The option of 1 city being the holy city of many religions.

 

[george_manet]

On the subject of religions, a few questions to ponder...

Is there a base religion that you have at the start (paganism or something), or do you start off with no religion whatsoever?

In the screenshots each city has a little icon indicating its religion. Is the city's religion unanimous, or can you have some citizens of one faith and some of another?

Is there an order in which religions appear? Since they seem to be tied in with the tech tree, this would seem likely. Also, there would be a logical sequence in which they appear. The most obvious example would be that christianity would follow judaism in the tech tree. If this is the case, wouldn't the new religion have to have some advantage over the old one in order to make researching it and switching to it worthwhile? (Just to be safe, this is in no way a comment on the merits of either the christian or jewish faiths, just a question about the game...)

Has there been any information released dealing with these questions? I would be very curious.

 

[ThePersian]

I do not think that concludes or answers anything yet

 

[ThePersian]

Good example. Lol. But from what i have read you are incontrole of your state religion. Inorder for a new religion to take place the holy site needs to be replaced since it will be in the caplital! Now if i have deduced correctly, its possible, no probeble that it you can have one holy city. But that raises an intristing point, if i am buddist and i find the next religion, Islam and switch who will be incontrole of the buddist Holy city? The secound to find? WHich raises another issue, in CIV III many civs got to the technologies sometimes on the same turn, now if the persians and french got to the same religion at the same time what would happen? Humm, maybe the person with the largest religous culture gets it.... But it is not likely, think in CIV III to get to three technologies that are close together at the begining of the game faster than the others. I think its highly unlikely that this would happen, but as stated earlier what happens when you take a holy city? possibily of a diffrent religion is it distryoed converted addopted. I understand there is a governemnt that supports multi religions, but in this gov can you have a holy city? As Meleager pointed out one city can have more than one religion such as Jerusilum, but all thoes religions were the cause of control by diffrent civs. Ex, Judisim under david, Christianity under the Knights Templer, and Islam under the Islamic expantion states, no one CIV had control of them at once, one fell and it was replaced.

So... just to clear that big mess of thought, are holy cities treated as a palece building which has to be replaced or like a small little wonder? I think i would go with the palece theory becuse its ubsurd to think the the Vaticant supports two religions when its the holy city on its own.

Again i hope some people closely fallowing the info could tell me how the game hopes to overcome the coversion of all CIVS to the biggest religion.

Thx for you replys and thoughts.

 

[warpstorm]

WHich raises another issue, in CIV III many civs got to the technologies sometimes on the same turn, now if the persians and french got to the same religion at the same time what would happen?

In Civ3 nothing happened at the same time. One always happened before another.

 

[ThePersian]

Ah, how silly of me to miss such a crutial point. So the question of two people getting to the same reserch is out. Thx for clearning that up Warpstorm.

Any answers to the other questions.

 

[warpstorm]

Well, in real life an city can have a population that is mixed. I think it would be cool if Civ4 allowed that and the possibilities for strife that that could potentially cause,.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

I am prepared to try and put some of these doubts to rest.

1) Yes each religion is attributed to different techs, but have a look at the techs they belong to. They are all ancient age techs and-according to the few screenies I have seen-they are all within about 1-2 tech steps away from each other (though on somewhat different paths). This means that any benefits accrued by getting the first religion will only last for-at best-a dozen to a score of turns.

2) Its one thing to found the religion, and get its Holy City, it is a completely different thing to spread that religion to not only your own nation (which you have to do), but to the cities of other civs. This will depend on a good mixture of diplomacy, Improvement and Wonder Building, and Unit Building (Missionaries).

3) Judging from the civics screen we have seen thus far, all civs start off with 'Primitivism' as their 'state religion'-which I assume is something along the lines of Paganism and/or Animism.

4) For what its worth, I am a strong advocate for traits which can be assigned or otherwise acquired by the founding civ. Traits which may influence the likelihood of the religion's take-up by other civs. That said, though, I think they were probably sensible to start with a very basic, Vanilla Religion system (one which hopefully they will build on in later expansions).

Hope that answers your questions.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Jaca]

Pretty well summarized, I guess.

As far as I remember, it is nowhere stated that the holy city is by default the capital. It may very well be any other city. Since I figure this holy city to start producing a lot of culture anyways and consequently health & hapiness - in the CIV IV conception - it may naturally provide a good platform for (another) core city, at least in premodern ages.

Secondly, as Aussie pointed out, seems that the techs which lead to a new religion and consequently a new holy city, are not far apart on the tech tree. Add to this fact that having more then one religion in the ages before "freedom of religion" leads to (not-yet-completely-clarified) drawkacks in the game, it may unlickly be a good strategy to hunt for anyways.

I don't see a lot of problems here (yet).

Kind regards,
Jaca

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

I think the AI randomly picks a city as your Holy City-though whether it is based on culture or population-or some other factor-I can't say for certain.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Jaca]

Regarding culture, I was just presuming fouding a holy city in itself will start create (a lot of) culture. And since culture in a city creates extra hapiness in the new CIV IV conception, it can help the city growth and production indirectly.

Kind regards,
Jaca

 

[grumbler]

I think the AI randomly picks a city as your Holy City-though whether it is based on culture or population-or some other factor-I can't say for certain.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

Yes, I remember that I read in one interview that the holy city is placed in your capital or near by.