Replace Pacifism?

[Whitefire]

ok ok but all you said doesn't contradict the fact that USA claims to have universal suffrage, it just doesn't work completely as the word "universal" would have mean. You come with a very political debate which would have its place in a democrat or republican congress but not in a game where "universal suffrage" is a way to represent a new concept of ruling, Democracy from country to country is also a term with a lot of contradictions and differents point of views but it is a lot closer of what America is than Theocracy of Hereditary Rules.

And whats the difference between a civ that claims to have Universal Sufferage, but doesn't, and one that claims to be Pacifistic, but wars?

 

[Cucumber]

good point, but I keep thinking that universal suffrage fit well as a political doctrine and that pacifism but also environmentalism could be changed to something less vague, something that we may connect easely with the history of ruling human societies from a dynamic point of view which takes in consideration only our civilisations (westerner) and some famous others (Indian, chinese, arabian,...) but not the native americans, the inuits or the indegenous of Kalahari desert.

well that's my perception

 

[OzzyKP]

ok ok but all you said doesn't contradict the fact that USA claims to have universal suffrage, it just doesn't work completely as the word "universal" would have mean. You come with a very political debate which would have its place in a democrat or republican congress but not in a game where "universal suffrage" is a way to represent a new concept of ruling, Democracy from country to country is also a term with a lot of contradictions and differents point of views but it is a lot closer of what America is than Theocracy of Hereditary Rules.

By the way in Belgium vote is obligatory for everyone, representation is proportional, governments made of coalition, do you think we are closer of universal suffrage than USA?

No.

In both Belgium and the United States you have to be 18 to vote. With a full quarter of the population under 18 voting is hardly universal.

That countries like ours claim to have universal suffrage doesn't make them different, like Whitefire says, from civs that claim to be pacifist and aren't.

When the United States was formed and white, land-owning men over 21 were allowed to vote we slapped ourselves on the back and said we had universal suffrage. We claimed it again when poor white, 21 year old men were allowed to vote. And again when black 21 year old men were allowed to vote, and then women, and then 18 year olds.

No doubt they made the same claim in ancient Greece.

 

[lumpthing]

Actually no nation has ever had universal suffrage. In so far as you consider modern western nations to have "universal suffrage" an equal case could be made of other civs in the ancient world.

By universal suffrage I assume Firaxis means the situation where by all adults, except convicts and foreign nationals, have an equal vote and where it is realistically possible for everyone to vote, even if it is not equally convenient for everyone to do so. I'm not aware of any ancient civ which has used this system.

A case can be made though of other civs throughout history being environmental. Like native american peoples.

I think it takes some 'noble savage' style idealism and projection to compare Native American economies to modern-day environmentalism. All pre-industrial civs were environmental in a sense in that they simply didn't have the potential to do damage the environment on anything like the scale of modern-day humans. Bear in mind that within 1,000 years of the arrival of the first humans in North America, 80% of the continent's large mammal species were extinct.

 

[kairob]

I would ditch free religion for Secularism, change paganism so that it actually represented paganism and swap pacifism for something else...