DoubleTrouble
Chieftain
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2003
- Messages
- 12
I've been playing Civ IV for a little while now, and there's something about international foreign relations that bugs the hell out of me.
In order to engage in trade with foreign cultures, I must surrender sovereignity over my borders to that foreign culture.
To put this in real world terms ... in order for the US and China to engage in ANY form of international trade at all the US must allow Chinese Militiary Units to come and go freely throughout the sovereign territory of the US, and the Chinese must permit US Military Units to come and go freely throughout the sovereign territory of China. That means that China can park chinese tanks and infantry in Nebraska, and the US can send the 1st Infantry Division on "holiday" along the Yangtze River.
Russia can station brigades of marines in New York, as a prerequisite to being a US trading partner, while the US Army parades through St. Petersburg.
India can "park" its military units Holland (and vice-versa) as a prerequisite to opening trade between India and Holland.
Am I the only one who views this as complete and utter MADNESS of the first order? Why does Civ IV mandate this sort of surrender of sovereignity of borders as a prerequisite to permitting trade between the cities of two foreign cultures? It makes no sense (to me), especially since the real world doesn't even approximately work like this.
So what I would like to request is this ... a Mod which does not require Open Borders as a pre-requisite to foreign trade routes.
Now I can accept that there would be a bonus/penalty mechanic built in such that having an Open Borders agreement would either enhance foreign trade returns ... or ... that NOT having an Open Borders agreement would apply a negative penalty to foreign trade routes. That I don't have a problem with. Furthermore, I can see a "need" to have a Diplomatic Option which needs to be agreed to by both leaders to "enable" city-level trade between them (and which can be rescinded unilaterally so as to create "trade wars" between cultures). Doing this as a Diplomatic Option then allows you to bargain with other cultures to start/stop trading with third party cultures (see above: trade wars), which opens up entire new avenues of conflict, strife, reconciliation, dependency and patronage in international relations.
Religion, culture, resources and military might aren't the only weapons that cultures should be able to use against one another. The entanglements of international trade, and the money that flows with it, can be used to both start, and stop, international conflicts. Economies can built, and ruined, by international trade. Think about it.
Money talks ... and it shouldn't be limited by the Civ IV game mechanic of being controlled by Open Borders, which really is more of an Ally posture than a Partnership posture in international relations. Consider also that out in the real world, money flows across borders, even borders that are "culturally closed" to one another at the national/governmental level.
In order to engage in trade with foreign cultures, I must surrender sovereignity over my borders to that foreign culture.
To put this in real world terms ... in order for the US and China to engage in ANY form of international trade at all the US must allow Chinese Militiary Units to come and go freely throughout the sovereign territory of the US, and the Chinese must permit US Military Units to come and go freely throughout the sovereign territory of China. That means that China can park chinese tanks and infantry in Nebraska, and the US can send the 1st Infantry Division on "holiday" along the Yangtze River.
Russia can station brigades of marines in New York, as a prerequisite to being a US trading partner, while the US Army parades through St. Petersburg.
India can "park" its military units Holland (and vice-versa) as a prerequisite to opening trade between India and Holland.
Am I the only one who views this as complete and utter MADNESS of the first order? Why does Civ IV mandate this sort of surrender of sovereignity of borders as a prerequisite to permitting trade between the cities of two foreign cultures? It makes no sense (to me), especially since the real world doesn't even approximately work like this.
So what I would like to request is this ... a Mod which does not require Open Borders as a pre-requisite to foreign trade routes.
Now I can accept that there would be a bonus/penalty mechanic built in such that having an Open Borders agreement would either enhance foreign trade returns ... or ... that NOT having an Open Borders agreement would apply a negative penalty to foreign trade routes. That I don't have a problem with. Furthermore, I can see a "need" to have a Diplomatic Option which needs to be agreed to by both leaders to "enable" city-level trade between them (and which can be rescinded unilaterally so as to create "trade wars" between cultures). Doing this as a Diplomatic Option then allows you to bargain with other cultures to start/stop trading with third party cultures (see above: trade wars), which opens up entire new avenues of conflict, strife, reconciliation, dependency and patronage in international relations.
Religion, culture, resources and military might aren't the only weapons that cultures should be able to use against one another. The entanglements of international trade, and the money that flows with it, can be used to both start, and stop, international conflicts. Economies can built, and ruined, by international trade. Think about it.
Money talks ... and it shouldn't be limited by the Civ IV game mechanic of being controlled by Open Borders, which really is more of an Ally posture than a Partnership posture in international relations. Consider also that out in the real world, money flows across borders, even borders that are "culturally closed" to one another at the national/governmental level.
