research and goody huts

[sumthinelse]

I played civ3 quite a bit, now I have gone back to civ2.

In civ3, if I was currently researching a certain advance, it would never appear from a goody hut unless it was the only tech available. Is that still true in civ2.

In civ3, some advances take longer than others. In civ2, I am assuming that all advances take the same amount of research. Is that true?

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

Originally posted by sumthinelse
In civ3, if I was currently researching a certain advance, it would never appear from a goody hut unless it was the only tech available. Is that still true in civ2.

Not necessarily. I've gotten the same tech I am reseaeching from a hut several times.

In civ3, some advances take longer than others. In civ2, I am assuming that all advances take the same amount of research. Is that true?

Each tech doesn't have a set number of turns, but the amount of research that is needed for each additional one increases. Generally speaking, the 10th tech you research will be the same number of beakers as the 10th tech you research in another game. It doesn't matter which tech it is, just the order in which you get to it.

 

[sumthinelse]

Thanx duke.

 

[ElephantU]

Originally posted by Duke of Marlbrough
Generally speaking, the 10th tech you research will be the same number of beakers as the 10th tech you research in another game.

Duke, you've forgotten about the Key Civ effect. If you are way ahead the research will take more beakers; if you are way behind it will take less.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

That's why I said generally.

I don't want to overflow someone with tons of information all at once.

 

[sumthinelse]

Originally posted by Duke of Marlbrough
I don't want to overflow someone with tons of information all at once.

Go ahead and overflow.

Another question: If you get several advances from goody huts and that puts you ahead in advances then that will also make research slower?

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

Originally posted by sumthinelse
If you get several advances from goody huts and that puts you ahead in advances then that will also make research slower?

Yep. That is usually the delemia early on in the game. Most people try to get to Monarchy as quickly as possible. So any techs that you get from huts that aren't on that direct path will delay that goal.

As ElephantU mentioned; your tech rate is connected to your 'key civ'. Your key civ is determined by your power rating (F3) (weak, supreme, etc). Depending on where you are in the power rating, top to bottom, it correlates to a Civ color, from top to bottom. The white Civ is the top, the purple civ is the bottom. So, if your power ranking is 'supreme', then your 'key civ' is the purple one. Once you've determined your 'key civ', you look at the amout of techs you have in relation to them. if you have many more techs than them, your science will have a penalty added to it and take longer. If you have about the same amount of techs, no penalty. That is why many games you will hear about people having a 'pet' city (a city they let the AI keep so the game doesn't end) from the purple civ and gifting all their techs to them. At that point the AI shouldn't be able to do anything with your techs (having only one city that is usually very well surrounded) and you negate the research penalty.

How's that for enough info?

 

[duke o' york]

Ah! Beaker collection - one of my favourite parts of Civ.

You may want to consider leaving some huts you think you may get techs out of until you have researched Monarchy. Monarchy requires Alphabet, Ceremonial Burial and Code of Laws so even if you manage to get things just right then it will be the fourth tech you research. The importance of an early switch from Despotism can be vital to your success at Civ. You may get one of the three techs above from a hut or right at the beginning of the game but are you willing to risk this: you are researching Monarchy at the number of beakers for your fourth tech. You pop a couple of huts and get Horseback Riding and Warrior Code. This then makes Monarchy your sixth tech and you'll take much longer to research it, leaving you in Despotism for even longer.

 

[ElephantU]

If you start with no "freebie" techs, Monarchy on the fourth tech won't work. There is a cycle thing where one set of techs is removed from the list each round. Monarchy is in the set that is removed on the fourth round. If you start with some freebie techs, though, you may be able to get Monarchy earlier. I've even heard of starts with Monarchy as a freebie.

A good way to check this out is to download the utility CIV2PLAN, which is a DOS program that allows you to input starting techs and then shows the list of all tech options for each round. If you get a tech from a hut that is not on the list you can input its three character code and it will resort the list.

Sumthinelse, I realized that you may have been asking a different question originally. The specific tech does not have a specific research cost; it is just the sequence of the techs that increase the cost, with a bonus/penalty factor thrown in if you are ahead or behind of your "Key Civ". The Key Civ formula is exhaustively discussed here:

http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum3/HTML/001828.html?17

Samson is an amazing analyst who has "broken" just about all of the mysteries of CIV2.

Here is his "Cost of Research" thread:

http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum3/HTML/001831.html?6

There is a "Great Library" over at Apolyton.Net that has most of this stuff indexed. It's in the Strategy Forum under Civ2.

 

[sumthinelse]

Originally posted by duke o' york
You pop a couple of huts and get Horseback Riding and Warrior Code. This then makes Monarchy your sixth tech and you'll take much longer to research it, leaving you in Despotism for even longer.

Good points, thanks. I do believe in good government (I can't find "war weariness" in rules.txt so I assume democracy is not a problem in civ2).

If the map is huge and I have horseback riding, though, I think it's quite possible to get mapmaking early, and in fact get almost all the ancient techs from huts. BTW, do barbs (which come out of huts you open of course) get stronger on higher difficulty levels?

 

[sumthinelse]

Originally posted by ElephantU
There is a cycle thing where one set of techs is removed from the list each round.

"list"? "round"? Thanks, I'll try to check the docs you referred to to see if I can understand.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

I believe he is referring to the idea that each time a new tech is discovered ('round') the choices for new techs ('list') can be dependant on the techs you have recently discovered.

The game won't let you research just 'war' techs for example, if you research a couple of those in a row, it will remove 'war' techs from the list of available ones the next 'round'. That way the game tries to force you to have a somewhat rounded out technology path.

The higher difficulty for Barbs increases the ways in which they can appear in the game and also increases their strength, to a degree. As the difficulty gets higher they get an increased bonus for when they attack. The Barb leaders also give you more ransom money at higher difficulty levels.