Research

[Lazonby]

I've got a question about research. It seems that 4 of 5 games, I always find myself 2-5 techs behind other civs when playing on Noble (vanilla C4) and a research rate at 80% or higher throughout the entire game. I'm able to win consistently on Noble, but I think having the tech advantage on higher levels would come in handy for shorter wars and quicker victories on higher levels. I don't like to trade my newly discovered techs, as I'd still wind up behind, with a stronger civ. Most of the time, they offer you crappy deals anyway. What's the secret to getting ahead?

 

[Janus0]

If your slider is at 80% the whole game, your problem isn't with research, its with expantion. Try to expand till you're at 60%. If you maintain your focus on your research, having 8-10 cities on 60% research will tech you much faster than 4-5 cities on 80%. That said..

1) Trading is a good idea if you don't plan to war with the people you're trading with. Get 2 diplomacy partners, give in to all their stupid demands, make them friendly, and only trade with them if you can. As a bonus, you can usually bribe them into warring with you, which improves relations with them while making it easier to expand.
2) Espionage is a great way to catch up. You can't have the tech lead if you rely completely on it, but the AI should never be ahead of you.
3) There is a difference between the AI having 2-5 techs you don't have and being 2-5 techs behind. If you're really *behind* you're in trouble. If you've just researched along different trees you don't have anything to worry about.

 

[Lazonby]

Doh. Just saw the other thread with some tips. Let me toss out an example from a recent game.

There was a game I was playing a while back using Monte where I had 8 cities, and a GP farm churning out GS's quickly. I built academies and monasteries in every city, with 3 religions (2 I founded), the necessary research wonders, and had my research civics in place. I like to cottage somewhat heavily, with an eye towards production (to churn out a military or wonders). I personally felt it was my best research building game to date, but other civs were still about 3-4 tech ahead of me. How can that be?

 

[Janus0]

Post a save?

 

[Lazonby]

1) Trading is a good idea if you don't plan to war with the people you're trading with. Get 2 diplomacy partners, give in to all their stupid demands, make them friendly, and only trade with them if you can. As a bonus, you can usually bribe them into warring with you, which improves relations with them while making it easier to expand.

But wouldn't trading with them make/allow them to trade your tech away to others you don't want having it?

2) Espionage is a great way to catch up. You can't have the tech lead if you rely completely on it, but the AI should never be ahead of you.

What exactly do you mean? I'm just learning the benefits of sabotaging other civ's resources. In my last game, it worked nicely. How could I better leverage this strategy?

3) There is a difference between the AI having 2-5 techs you don't have and being 2-5 techs behind. If you're really *behind* you're in trouble. If you've just researched along different trees you don't have anything to worry about.

I typically research along different tech paths, but I can only get maybe 2 techs that other civs don't have, but not for long. I never truly have an advantage on techs based on my research path alone, so I tend to think I'm a little behind.

 

[Janus0]

But wouldn't trading with them make/allow them to trade your tech away to others you don't want having it?

Yes, which is why you generaly don't want to trade away military techs. That said, while the AI is notorous for trading techs among themselves, they will not give away techs to civs they don't like and won't trade with civs that don't have something to give them in return. The key to a successful trade stragegy imo is to pick one tech that alot of civs need and trade it to several different civs for different techs. If you have drama, for example, you could trade it for math from one civ, iron working from a different civ, and calendar from a third. That way the civs don't trade amongst themselves (you already gave them the tech) and you get 2-3 techs in the process.

What exactly do you mean? I'm just learning the benefits of sabotaging other civ's resources. In my last game, it worked nicely. How could I better leverage this strategy?

If you generate enough points, you can steal technology from your opponents. Search for threads on "espionage ecconomy" .. there are a few out there that are really eye opening.

I typically research along different tech paths, but I can only get maybe 2 techs that other civs don't have, but not for long. I never truly have an advantage on techs based on my research path alone, so I tend to think I'm a little behind.

I know the feeling. Especially at higher levels you'll find that you're comming from behind more and more often. Do what you can to keep even with the AI until you've expanded, and then leverage your expation to get a tech lead. Its pretty difficult to get a tech lead straight out of the gate, especially if you're not the largest civ on the map. Try to self research the most important techs (alphabet, currency, code of laws, liberalism) while you're in the hole and trade them to backfill with the cheaper ones.

 

[Lazonby]

Here's the game I was talking about. I don't think I ever finished it because I reformatted my HDD. It was kind of a scrappy game and I can't remember all that was going on, but I do know I was behind on techs. This may not be the best representation of how I like to play, but hopefully it will give you enough info.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/130220/Dave_AD-2012.Civ4SavedGame


Here's a better representation with Gandhi. I was trying for and achieved a cultural victory (Huge map)

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/130220/Dave_AD-1947.Civ4SavedGame

 

[Gliese 581]

It sounds like you need to specialize your cities more, it's no good building academies and monasteries in every city. Most of the time it's much better to settle GSs or use them to bulb a technology after you've created an academy in your best science city, make sure this city also get the oxford university later on. Rather than making your cities jack-of-all-trades you should try to achieve specific goals for each city. Some cities can be devoted to science and use as many cottages as possible but others should be devoted to production. Production cities should rely on farms and mines and doesn't need to bother with science buildings or cottages. The main point of these cities is to produce units quickly.
If you're using a cottage-heavy strategy then you're probably best of with just one city as a great person farm, preferably one with 3 or more food resources. If you're going to build some wonders, your GP farm can be a good choice since it'll generate gps even faster that way. Therefore it is good if you have some production as well as food in this city.

 

[King Jason]

If you generate enough points, you can steal technology from your opponents. Search for threads on "espionage ecconomy" .. there are a few out there that are really eye opening.

I've got a question about research. It seems that 4 of 5 games, I always find myself 2-5 techs behind other civs when playing on Noble (vanilla C4)...

He can't use Esponiage.