Researching techs at a (HUGE) loss...

[Drakan]

The year 2033. I'm aiming for a space launch at Deity with the Dutch in archipiélago map C3C v.1.22. I've built 6 parts and I'm missing four techs for the last four parts: Synthetic Fibres, Nuclear Energy, Laser and Robotics. Only 17 turns left for retirement and I'm going nuts. All is lost. Even spying for a tech costs 6130 gold and I only make 1100 gold per turn with...60 cities average size of 20 with all improvements built and GW Adam Smith !!! Spying is out of the question I won't make it on time...not to mention the risk of getting caught and starting some unwanted war with Russia or Greece.

Researching a tech at a minimum loss (-14 gold or so) takes like 13 turns at least (having Great Wonder Internet (=science labs) and libraries and universities in almost all my cities...

Try trading...they are all cash strapped. Greeks will swap a brand new tech for a world map and 4 gold, what a raw deal...

All is lost ? Time is running out ....

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!

I built four prebuilds for the missing spaceship parts so that I could build them in one turn when the time came.

I researched techs at a massive loss of minus 1.533 gold per turn at 90%. The techs rolled in every four/three turns ( I thought four was the minimum time for research, I was proved wrong) and I even allowed my citizens a 10% slab for luxuries.

I lost an improvement in one city every turn and a worker was disbanded every turn as well. That was all !! This went on until 2049. When I had only one turn to go, I discovered Robotics and traded it to the Russians for Synthetic Fibers, 114 lump gold and their World Map. I was good to go. Put the prebuilds (3 ICBM's and a palace) in the four cities and swapped production to the four missing spaceship parts.

I waited anxiously...intraturn of 4 minutes. Beads of sweat running down my forehead...and the year 2.050 came. Ladies and Gentlemen countdown has started, Spaceship ready for launch in year 2.050, phew ! Saved in the nick of time. I would have also won by points, but that wasn't the goal, so it would have been a loss for me. All in all, 7.103 lousy points, yuck.

The point being that you can research at a massive loss for 17 turns in Republic with 5 luxuries, at peace, with 10% lux slab and yet still be able to research at a fantastic pace of a tech every three or four turns. Big WOW !
Really worthwile If desperate. If I had only known this feature I would have sent the space ship a hundred years before at least. Mind you, in Emperor there's just no need to pull this trick.

The downpoint being, do you guys research at a massive loss ? In over 17 turns micromanaging every single turn had no revolts or anarchy or anything, really smooth...I think it is really worthwile If you are going to be caught up by Cronos.

 

[Tomoyo]

That's an exploit in most rulesets, like LK's.

I would have suggested scientists.

 

[Drakan]

Well, the game was only for my pleasure, no competition or anything. Hmmm, yeah I micromanaged turning all possible citizens to scientists but even so I wouldn't make it on time. This was the only possible way on time. Talk about a slow tech pace with six other civs in pielago, and one of them being the all-mighty Greeks, yehah !

I believe they built just so many units that they had no possible way of keeping up the tech pace, it really hindered them with the massive upkeep of gold per turn and being in islands meant there units just laid there basking in the sun with no one to fight them, so I was almost forced to do all the research myself. I had built Leo's Workshop so I just wouldn't allow them to upgrade at a minimum price, heh heh.

What's Lk ?

 

[Tomoyo]

LK = LKendter, only the guy who has started like 85 SGs...

 

[Drakan]

Wooops, I don't follow the SG's much. Thanks

 

[morchuflex]

I only make 1100 gold per turn with...60 cities average size of 20 with all improvements built and GW Adam Smith !

I can't understand how you can be making so little money with a huge empire. Are you still in Despotism? Have you forgotten to build roads? Or do you have thousands of useless military units, plaguing your budget?
Under Republic, with all improvments built, and a fully improved land, I can research late techs faster with an empire three times smaller, and that on Emperor level. There has to be something wrong with your game.
Anyway, I'm glad for you you eventually won.

 

[Drakan]

Thanks Morchuflex.

I'm in Republic. The moment I get to this goverment I leave it all the game through. All the tiles have all improvements possible save the ones that hold key resources which I only hook up when needed (such as coal, iron..) to avoid depletion. Even so I ran out out of coal and had to invade the feable Incas to obtain it. Even making landfall on the Greeks with 50 cavalry and 25 pikemen on a hill top facing...hundreds of horsemen and hoplites I had like one third of my force killed and the rest remained redlined or yellow. Plenty of elites anyway, so I loaded them back on the galleons. Eventually those elites would spawn Armies (well, MGL's really) gainst Portugal in another war. Out of the question attacking the Celts which had iron and thus medieval infantry ready to hack me down. If I got butchered with the Greeks with 75 units in the Middle Ages and they had no iron imagine against the Celts...suicide If I had no available Army to hide behind my invading SoD.

Yes, i'm amazed too. It took me 50 hours to finish this Deity game. A normal Emperor game takes me anywhere between 12-16 hours with space launch included. This has been by far and large the slowest tech pace I've seen in my life. I've almost never had to wait until the year 2.050 to launch the spaceship. But in this game it seemed the other civs were too busy dealing with a gazillion obsolete units running around in their land ( I attempted quite a few land falls in the Middle Ages so that got them paranoid with me although they weren't serious attempts of invasion save the Incas which I destroyed) to actually carry out any research whatsoever.

It was very frustrating. Even when I had a a modern tech the Greeks didn't have, they were unwilling to trade it for one of theirs even though I would also add a chunk of lump gold in the deal. Trading just didn't work in this game no matter what, and I was almost always in the tech lead in this game. I just cannot explain why they took on forever to research. Even with the Great Library which I built in Amsterdam I was forced to continue carrying out the research at full throttle because the techs took forever to roll in, and just aswell I did, I almost loss the spacerace victory.

Strangely enough the Greeks were without iron troughout the whole game, just like the Deity game I had played right before this one with all six civs random. Hmmm...

As for military units, yeah I have quite a few. 15 empty Armies waiting to be loaded with modern armour. Around 130 WWII tanks, 13 ICBM'S, 23 battleships, 130 Mechanized Infantry, 43 artillery. It ain't such a big army after all and it's really only meant for defence purposes.

I had almost every city producing wealth at a time in order to outresearch in the given time with scientists as specialists, and even so I just wouldn't be on time. I just found that I had to research at a (huge) loss to make it on time. I thought my citizens would revolt and go to anarchy but that just didn't happen.

 

[DragonRunner]

Everything I've read and expeirienced says that wealth= But, who am I to criticise, you're winning on Diety while I'm only monarch!

 

[The Omega]

Hm......I would suggest smashing all opposition, but I don't think that would have helped at all.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

If you're going for Space, there is nothing wrong with building nothing but Wealth everywhere (and the SS parts, of course) once any not-completely corrucpt city is done with Growth/Happiness/Science improvements.

 

[Drakan]

Yeah, I guess my victory was tainted cause of that. But man, I honestly tried to research at the max availiable since the very start of the game. I mean my goal was to launch that spaceship not to start off wars unless I got dragged in to one (I signed RoP in order to avoid wars except with the Greeks) or If I needed some key resource such as the Inca coal for my railroads.

I tried wealth on every city with scientists as specialists and I calculated I just wouldn't make it on time for those 17 turns. Trust me, this was my only way out...of the planet, bad joke.

Nevermind, my next space victory at Deity will be without pulling this one. But even so, I'm proud

 

[DragonRunner]

I didn't know that, and that's why I'm only a monarch player.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Is what he did legal in gotm ?

I am going for space in cotm08. Only in 250BC yet, but who knows i might find it usefull doing this in modern age if it is legal.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

The CotM policy is: Any exploit is illegal, until it is explicitely allowed by the rules , like Palace Jumps, Ship Chaining (can live with those), or false peace treaties and RoP rapes (I will NEVER get that ).

 

[Tomoyo]

Ugh... I didn't check, but the Palace jump is legal???!!! I try to follow the RBC/LK rules, whichever convenient...

 

[Dianthus]

Take a look at <this link> for the list of what's allowed/disallowed.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Take a look at <this link> for the list of what's allowed/disallowed.

The point is that it is not included in that list

 

[Tomoyo]

...which implies that it's not an exploit at all...

 

[Drakan]

yeehah !!

 

[microbe]

There are a lot of ways you could do to save gold if you are desperate as in this case:
1. sell techs to AI for whatever gold they have
2. disband units until your unit support is zero
3. sell unneeded improvements, such as temples/cathedrals/granaries/rax/mass transit system, unless you have happiness problem. If you plan to set to 100% science, you can also sell banks and stock exchanges, unless they are paid by Smith's.
4. set cities to wealth.