Resource generation seems very flawed and is not linked to map size

[pokiehl]

Just rolled a few maps of different sizes back to back. It’s bizarre how much more dense resources are on a normal or smaller map vs large or huge. This is really hurting my enjoyment of the game because I love big maps in these types of games.

 

[9gkj548hkm20vk79dj689bnj4]

I thought there would be a lot more resources akin to the Civilization games, too. Some regions have, like, one resource.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I thought there would be a lot more resources akin to the Civilization games, too. Some regions have, like, one resource.

In fact, I find it is rare to have more than 1 Strategic Resource in any region anywhere. Luxury Resources, on the other hand, frequently 'bunch' with 2 - 4 in a region, but elsewhere 3 - 4 regions together with 1 Luxury 'deposit' among them. The randomness, especially when applied to Starting Positions, is very annoying - although since there is some flexibility inherent in the Neolithic Roaming Start I find I am having to 're-roll' Starts a tiny fraction of the time compared to Civ VI . . .

 

[henry296]

I'm also not sure if I'm a fan of seeing the question mark resources. I found a couple of unknown resources in the northern tundra section of the map and quickly grabbed it as an outpost think it likely would be oil which was correct.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I'm also not sure if I'm a fan of seeing the question mark resources. I found a couple of unknown resources in the northern tundra section of the map and quickly grabbed it as an outpost think it likely would be oil which was correct.

On the one hand, with resources as relatively scarce as they are, having some idea of where to go to grab them makes sense. Also, it is not entirely unrealistic: tar pits and naptha 'pools' were well-known in the Middle East back to Ancient times (one of the first models of a boat found in Mesopotamia, dated to 5800 BCE, was made of woven reeds and 'waterproofed' with bitumin pitch from one of the oil pools), so the modern Saudi Arabian and southern Iraq oil fields weren't exactly a surprise a couple of thousand years later.

On the other hand, I keep beating the drum for having some resources stay hidden until you have the Technology to 'find' them later in the game, so that the Resource Situation stays somewhat dynamic and you have less reason to throw up your hands and Rage Quit when you discover that there's only 2 'deposits' of Iron anywhere on the map in the Classical Age and they are both on other continents from the one you started on . . .

 

[fortydayweekend]

I've advocated it for Civ VII, and I'll keep banging the drum for it in Humankind: Progressive Resources. It is ridiculous that all the Oil, Coal, Iron, Aluminum, etc in the world appears like Magic at exactly the same moment. There should be Technologically-inspired points where more Resources appear: deep mining technology in the Medieval Age, or Open Pit Mines in the Modern Age (this would encroach a bit on Australia's Emblematic Quarter, but they could be given a boost to make up for it). You'd still have the problem of scrambling to secure Resources - establishing Diplomatic Trade Routes, settling new regions or conquering old ones that suddenly turn Valuable - but that, IMHO, would just keep the game more dynamic in the mid to late stages.

I like that idea. Also, progressively *disappearing* resources as they either become "obsolete" / commonplace like dye or spices, or the old silver mines dry up, which drives New World expansion. It would really fit with the Era progression theme to have resources that change over time, and it would help limit resource-bonus bloat as well as put a time limit on the value of trade routes.

(Though the New World in HK is even worse than in Civ - if you're there first you can just claim the whole lot with outposts and every-improvement-built cities, and the independents are no match for Arquebuses. To make the New World interesting it maybe needs an arbitrary limitation so that you can have a proper, fair, scramble - like in Victoria 2 where nobody can colonize Africa until 1840, and then every Great Power can immediately).

On the other hand, I keep beating the drum for having some resources stay hidden until you have the Technology to 'find' them later in the game, so that the Resource Situation stays somewhat dynamic and you have less reason to throw up your hands and Rage Quit when you discover that there's only 2 'deposits' of Iron anywhere on the map in the Classical Age and they are both on other continents from the one you started on . . .

I find from Medieval onwards I'm prioritising the ? resources for new expansion, because if they're still unknown they must be something good!

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I like that idea. Also, progressively *disappearing* resources as they either become "obsolete" / commonplace like dye or spices, or the old silver mines dry up, which drives New World expansion. It would really fit with the Era progression theme to have resources that change over time, and it would help limit resource-bonus bloat as well as put a time limit on the value of trade routes.

A complete system would include the ability to 'move' natural resources like Hoses, Cattle, Sheep, Silk, Dyes, etc to similar terrain/climates elsewhere. In the Neolithic/Ancient where the game starts, in fact, Horses were only native to a single swath of territory from Mongolia across Central Asia to northeastern Europe: they had to be spread, largely by Human action, to the rest of Europe, China, the Middle East, India, and North Africa. Everybody knows that horses were not in t he Americas, they don't realize there were a lot of other places they weren't as well, until people intervened.
Depleting minerals would also have to be part of the system: not only do 'new' deposits of Iron, Gold, Silver, Lead, Coal, Oil, etc. show up, but old ones get depleted or "worked out", while new ones replace them - frequently in some other region.
And finally, many 'natural' Resources get replaced. Natural Dyes now are a niche, craft market: the invention of artificial coal tar or aniline dyes in the 1850s completely replaced them for most commercial purposes. manufactured Luxuries should replace a great many of the natural ones by the Industrial and Modern Ages - the value of modern Trade Routes in Porcelain or Papyrus is negligible compared to the Trade in Automobiles, Machine Tools, or Personal Electronics.

(Though the New World in HK is even worse than in Civ - if you're there first you can just claim the whole lot with outposts and every-improvement-built cities, and the independents are no match for Arquebuses. To make the New World interesting it maybe needs an arbitrary limitation so that you can have a proper, fair, scramble - like in Victoria 2 where nobody can colonize Africa until 1840, and then every Great Power can immediately).

The historical constraints on wide-spread colonization in the Americas were two: Tropical disease in the first settlements in the Caribbean, southern North America and South America killed off up to 90% of the European colonists, and kept killing them as fast as they could arrive for generations (as far north as Jamestown, Virginia, which was placed in a coastal swamp full of malarial mosquitos - smart move), and Colonists and colonies a long way from the Mother Country in distance and time tended to get Independent in deed if not legal fact pretty quickly. In game terms, perhaps a massive Stability Hit to any Outpost or City founded on a different continent or in a different Hemisphere, or a massive Influence cost coupled with a massive Money maintenance cost for every region settled in a different Hemisphere - the map selection options in game set-up includes the Hemisphere concept, so it's coded in there somewhere already.