Revitalizing Civ 1

humbe

Warlord
Joined
Nov 23, 2005
Messages
168
Got a pretty new fancy mobile phone. The huge lump is pretty useless as a phone. Being bulky and eating up the battery in a day without really providing any features I need over what I had 15 years ago. So what to do with it? It runs dosbox, so I can play dos games when I have nothing else to do.. Hello Civilization I.. :) I really liked the addition of unit hitpoints in civ2 and cultural borders in civ3, but a bit undecided on all the new features in 4 and 5. But Civ1 is still fun, so thought I'd try to revitalize it.. Looked online here, but found the Civ1 info lacking, so thought I'd add a bit if someone else is interested.

Game goal
I love to optimize stuff, which makes a turn based game like civilization awesome. But to optimize I need a clear goal.

Just winning by conquest sounds boring. With luck, that can be done by using starting settler to pop a hut for cavalry, run around popping more huts and winning the game very early, and you don't actually need to build a single city. Of course you will to do better, but the game may end so early, and it's all up to having a map suitable for it, and luck popping huts and with initial combat.

Winning by having the best score sounds interesting in that you have to play the full amount of turns. However, due to the calculation, it seems that optimizing for the score would result in some boring play.

To avoiding having to define my own criteria for what to optimize, the earliest possible space victory seems to be a decent option. Needing to get a lot of techs, and some decent production cities.

Game settings
A randomized map adds a level of having to scout. However, comparing results from two different randomized maps gets very hard. Additionally, to optimize for a long term goal, you need to create a lot of cities, and naming your cities so you find them is hard. Using the earth map solves both of these. I can name cities after where they are located on earth to easily find them, and I can create other games with the same map to compare what looks best.

The AI isn't really a challenge, but play at Emperor level to at least give yourself some handicap.

Cheating
What is cheating? Optimizing is all about doing the smartest thing. A line has to be drawn as to what is cheating. I consider everything listed in the cheat page cheating. Especially everything that resorts to altering any game files and exploitation of bugs. In addition to what is listed in the cheat page, I define the following a cheat.
- Creating cities close to AI city to create a settler removing the city, to turn your settlers into homeless settlers with no upkeep cost. Working 2 forest tiles settlers can be made homeless in 10 turns.

I do not consider save/load cheating unless it causes a result that could not have happened without doing so. Why? You can of course get a lot of advantage creating better luck for yourself by saving and loading, but I allow it for the following reasons:
- It's too boring to check all the cities every turn to see if they will grow, finish production or similar next turn. So occasionally things go bad next turn because I forget something. Loading game instead of having to do lots of tedious micro management sounds much less painful without giving me an advantage.
- You can of course do better with luck. To do the best you need some good luck. Especially early luck is important. As I'm trying to play the optimal game, I'd have to restart the game instead of reloading if I had some utter bad luck destroying the game. Load/Saving to avoid some crucial bad luck seems superior. It's supposed to be enjoying anyhow.

First game
- First attempt, I'm trying to go for germans. They often get to start with two settlers due to the handicap. Likely because other civs starts close. I consider that just an advantage.

Early game strategy
- Build only settlers.
- Keep science at 100%. No buildings to pay upkeep for.
- Use first settler to build capitol.
- Use second settler to pop hut for cavalry.
- Use cavalry to get more homeless cavalry to have some units that can move around without penalty in republic/democracy.
- Pop huts for bonuses before AI does. Advanced civs for free city is the best one. Homeless cavalry very useful. Tech in our wanted tech path is also good. Should try to avoid techs we do not want yet to make those we want cheaper.
- Steal cities with cavalry, possible also with settler if defenseless.
- Beeline to Republic. Try to not acquire techs that do not lead to Republic, as they make it more expensive to get to Republic.
- Switch to Republic as soon as we can.
- Expand expand expand with the settlers you get and the found/stolen cities.
- Beeline to Trade and Religion so we can get JS Bach early to increase max city size.

State at 3000 BC:
- Got 18 cities, size 1 & 2. 4 stolen, 6 from huts, 8 from settlers.
- Have 5 settlers. One original homeless one. 4 homeless cavalry.
- Produced 11 settlers and one warrior (to defend against chinese attack my cavalry was too far away from. Warrior was disbanded after)
- Got a good presence in europe, mid africa and around india.
- Have researched 18 techs, one turn away from 19, including Republic/Democracy/Religion/Trade
- 7 cities started creating caravans for JS Bach.
- Have been republic for a while. Switched to democracy recently, as we found it in hut, and population is reasonably wide spread.
- Got some unwanted techs while beelining Republic. Was forced upon some techs stealing enemy civs, and some of the techs was not selectable when wanted so had to research something else while waiting.
- Starting opponents, Greece, Romans & India destroyed. Have waited to destroy China/Babylon for a chance to steal their only city. Restarted nation Mongol destroyed. Aztecs in america unseen.

Developing game strategy
- Build JS Bach.
- Beeline to Railroad as soon as possible.
- Get Genetic Engineering for Cure for Cancer.
- Keep expanding. Connect all cities with rails.
- Prepare for a We love the presiday day sale to increase population, once JS Bach and Cure for Cancer is present.

State at 2000 BC
- Got JS Bach soon after 3000 BC.
- Almost got enough caravans to complete Cure for Cancer.
- Railroads almost between all cities.
- Got 34 cities and 34 settlers now. Same 4 cavalry and 10 caravans.
- Did not manage to expand to the entire continent but have spread fairly wide at least.
- Beijing was in food poor territory so didn't seem like I could ever steal it. Destroyed it. Stole Babylon. No remaining civs on continent.
- Researching Electricity. Electronics will still follow for Hoover dam access.

Mid game strategy
- Complete cure for cancer.
- Use We love the president day to boost population.
- Get some cash to buy some temples/cathedrals.
- Take advantage of higher pop and railroads adding food surplus to get a lot of settlers and develop lands quickly.
- Research remaining tech needed.

State at 1000 BC
- All interesting techs researched.
- Could have founded Apollo Program at 1180, but found hoover dam instead to create production powerhouses first.
- Wasted money on Isaac Newton College.. Stupid.. Not did I need the tech bonus. Not do I have any libraries / universities anyhow yet. And I was forced to research obsoleting tech soon after to get to future tech anyhow.
- Built Seti Wonder to get free library in all cities. Put my tech speed to 1 turn, but was probably also waste as I don't need more techs, and teched way faster than needed anyhow.
- President sale held. Added settlers to boost all cities to size 3 as they seemed to have to be that to be included. Got all but one city to size 6-10. A lot to 10. Produced/Bought temples everywhere and cathedrals where I could afford. Most cities needing it have cathedrals now.
- Manufacturing plant produced/bought in my best production cities. Leaving me at least 4 production powerhouses.

Late game strategy
- See if I can complete a spaceship before Christ is born.

Result
- Finished space ship 680 BC. Was supposed to arrive in 22 years, but estimate was -658 years and it didn't work.
- Researched way too many techs I didn't need.
- Built stuff I didn't need to build.
- Had way more cities than needed to efficiently build spaceship.

Can probably shave quite a lot of time away from that..

Issue found:
- Not having built anything but temples/cathedrals in cities and a few wonders, list of stuff to build in city becomes too large, so I'm unable to pick what I want to produce. Only get a list of next/next. Have to build enough useless wonders to get few enough buildings left to build before I can start building spaceship. If only the silly AI had managed to build some more of those early wonders. :)
 
And some notes:
- Getting homeless units to get away from republic/democracy penalty might be something I should add to cheating list. Makes them a bit too useful.
- Railroad is utterly powerful. Get it.. ASAP. Food/Production bonus awesome, but the best is to be able to keep a really small army that can get anywhere. Gets around the republic/democracy issues pretty well. A really fast beeline here can make defensive units totally unnecessary.
- It's civ1, so expand expand expand. No penalty for having many cities. Just tiresome to manage many.
- Could be interested to play without using the huts. Way powerful early on if you get correct bonuses.
- The bonuses from huts seems to differ. Some huts doesn't seem to want to give units at all. Others seems to only want to give units. Seems consistent enough to have very low chance of being just randomness. Maybe there are some prereqs needed in order to qualify for some of the bonuses. When getting techs, some techs seems overrepresented, as for instance Monarchy/Democracy pops out a lot.
 
Anyone else tried to go for early spaceship? How fast do you manage?
 
And some notes:
...
- It's civ1, so expand expand expand. No penalty for having many cities. Just tiresome to manage many.
...

There is a penalty for many cities, "furious" (very unhappy) citizens in higher versions (patches from microprose). Do you have version 474.05? in 474.01 there is no such penalty (iirc).

See this thread for more info about "very unhappy" people; they were added in v3 (though the graphics is there since the beginning).

Double unhappy citizens start to appear when you have a lot of cities. It is level and government type dependent.

civ.exe v474.05 (last available patch, originally from Microprose BBS) can be downloaded here. CRC32 of civ.exe: 92248218. Some more info about different civ.exe files in this post

And, an excerpt from http://www.civfanatics.com/civ1/faq/civfaq2.php

Spoiler :
1) How can I tell which version of Civ I have?
When you run Civ it asks various setup questions. The version number is on these screens. The number is 474 plus an increment, so v5 is shown as 474.05. If you have an older version, you can get the latest version by anonymous FTP from some of the big game sources such as ftp.uwp.edu. Note: Version numbers may be 475.X or 474.X, with the only difference being the distribution media.


2) Which is the best version of Civ?
There has been much debate on Usenet about the various pros and cons of the different versions. The only two versions worth considering are 474.01 and 474.05 (versions 1 and 5). The easiest of the two is v1. If you are playing with v5, and not having much luck, revert back to v1. This is also the version that allows the Shift-56 Cheat, which can be a good way of learning the ins and outs of the game. However, if you like a challenge, then v5 is really the only one to play. A further impetus to upgrade is that v5 contains far less bugs. If you do get the latest version, the chances that the game will not crash are far greater . The biggest problem with v1 is the Instant Advice bug, which is better known as the "Advisory Bug". This can be temporarily avoided by turning Instant advice off.

The following version information was compiled with the help of MicroProse:

v1: The original game.

v2: This version attempted---and failed---to fix the Advisory Bug. It did fix the Score Bug, and removed the Shift-56 Cheat.

v3: Once again tried to fix the Advisory Bug, and failed again. Added some new pictures. Added "very unhappy people." Removed free barracks. No longer able to disband a population-1 city at Chieftain level by buying a settler. Transports no longer made people unhappy under a Democracy or Republic. Overall, the game became harder for veteran players. This version is harder to play than previous versions, mainly for people playing Despotic Conquest.

v4: No changes; just converted for HD disks.

v5: The most recent failed attempt to repair the Advisory Bug. Note: There is no other difference between v3 and v5.
 
Thanks for the pointers.. Might attempt that conquest challenge afterwards..

I currently use v1 on my cell.. Doesn't sound like the versions make much of a difference, with most of them just being about not managing to fix a bug. Buy maybe it fixes a lot more that is not mentioned? Being able to rename cities is nice anyhow.

Upgrading to get very unhappy people doesn't seem that awesome. Especially without some specification of what very unhappy people actually mean. When do you get very unhappy people, what does it take to make cities not revolt in those cases? I remember having them in some earlier game but they just annoyed me by not having any spec for how they worked.

And are you saying that very unhappy people are supposed to make the game scale less with cities? So getting population in one city may make population in other cities very unhappy?
 
Quoting from
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php/archive/showthread.php?t=251311

This seems to be a little trick Sid plays on really big civilizations.

At emperor level, you start with 2 born-content people (the dark blue shirts in the city display) in every city. After those first two, each additional citizen is born unhappy (the black shirts).

At emperor level, you can build 12 cities with no ill effects. But then, the born-contents start to disappear. When you have 24 cities, each city will only have one born-content. By the time you have built 36 cities, there are no born-content citizens anywhere. About now the cure for cancer starts looking real good.

When you go beyond 36 cities, you start adding those red-shirted citizens. Each 12 cities you build adds another red shirt in every city.

The good news about these guys is they respond well to luxuries. Two diamonds makes one go from red (very unhappy) to light blue (happy). The bad news is it's twice as hard to make them content. A cathedral only makes makes two of them content.

The math is for emperor level in a democracy.
In less advanced governments, red shirts appear more quickly.
At easier difficulty levels, they appear more slowly.

Another data point : prince-democracy loses one born-content with each 20 cities built.

BTW, humbe, your summary of tactics is quite nice :goodjob: (I should have written this first, my bad)
 
Maybe looking into competing on that space race save linked above.. However, that looks very simplified, being on easy difficulty so research cost is considerable less and happiness is way less of an issue. And with a prebuilt spaceship in addition, one don't need production capacity either. All that is needed is to tech needed techs efficiently.
 
Hi humbe,

in this post
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2083272&postcount=61
carniflex claims to launch in 2020BC, when playing on Earth, from "cold start", i.e. nothing preassembled. I'm not sure which version he used (I would actually bet he used 474.01). For me such an early launch is just rather hard to believe (though I'm not saying it is not true). I was unable to do something similar.

E.g. just the first step - Pyramids in 3660BC?? Perhaps he started with two settler near woods and added the second to the city? edit: no, he's playing Mongols _on EARTH_. Maybe he bought barracks (and then changed them to pyramids) to speed it up with money found in huts :dunno:

Anyhow, I'd like to apologize a bit; I might have sounded like "one should play only version 474.05 and no other", which was not my point. I just wanted to let you know that the expansion has some (ad hoc) limits in (some versions of) the game.

Cheers!
 
In space race linked above, 2040 BC is best recorded as far as the top post is updated anyhow. Seems doable in that setting.. All you have to do is research the 39 techs needed in the ~100 available turns, and then have 12 caravans for Apollo and a city that has saved up enough hammers to complete the module in one turn. Testing that now..

Doing so on emperor difficulty, without a prebuilt spaceship seems pretty impossible though. Republic or Democracy is not needed to build a spaceship, so pyramids saves him one tech to research. However, it seems impossible to build it that early. That's like 20 hammers per turn until he built it, and in addition he claims to have built 20 settlers within 3240 BC. Bollocks without cheating if you ask me. The question is just whether the forum post is bogus or if its not, how he cheated. Did he just alter the savegame to do whatever, did he find some outrageous way to exploit known cheats, or does he know of a not so known cheat?

The cheat with savegames not saving whether units are used or not, so you supposedly can move then as much as you want in one turn, would make you able to pop all huts on continent in one turn, creating an outrageous start, but I haven't found this cheat to work at all when I tested it. Doesn't look like that's what he has done either.

If the post is not just bogus, I guess he at least had a way to cheat himself to a lot of money. Buying all those buildings and the space ship parts is ridiculously expensive, even if he got every shield for just 2 coins.
 
Actually, one trick (imho clean and smart) would be to sell Palace to get $200 to speed up Pyramids. If you time it right, i.e. sell it in the turn when the cost of finishing is below the money you have+200, and then revolt, you won't loose a nickel (palace is not required in democracy).

Overall, I have the feeling that carnfilex's post are not bogus. He might be using save/load cheat to "get lucky" with huts, though.
 
Hmm.. Nice trick indeed selling palace for pyramids.. However, if I remember correctly, buying wonder is 3g per shield, and you have no improvement that early that you can use to buy the last shields.. Can buy the first shields, but then you have to play without palace a good while. (Though probably not that big impact early on with little trade to begin with). If you buy the last part at 3g per shield that's "just" 67 of the 300 shields needed.

My strategy was kind of based around the "fact" that the max research speed was 1 tech per turn. But if his claims are correct, overflow is kept enabling you to research many techs at a time. So instead of me trying to tech fast all the time, he use most of the time to build up a nation to tech quickly, and then tech everything in short time in bursts. So a very different approach indeed. Guess I may need to try that out..

But that quickly, there's no way he has the hammers to build anything close to what he says, so he has to be using cash to buy stuff, and it doesn't sound doable to get that much cash that fast. I've tried rexxing as fast as possible myself on the earth map, save/loading for maximum hut luck, and prescouting to find the huts as quick as possible. This allowed me to get many advanced tribes as free cities, and stealing some cities too, but building 20 settlers in that time sounds impossible. I have never been close to that even though I've only built settlers and rexxed as fast as I could.
 
The cheat with savegames not saving whether units are used or not, so you supposedly can move then as much as you want in one turn, would make you able to pop all huts on continent in one turn, creating an outrageous start, but I haven't found this cheat to work at all when I tested it. Doesn't look like that's what he has done either.

Do you mean you didn't get the "infinite move" trick to work at all? If so, you need to move your 0-3 save to 4-8, the auto-save slots.

Otherwise, I agree it doesn't work. When I experimented with it, I had great difficulty manipulating huts. It was as if the same random seed was loaded every time whereas different seeds were loaded when resuming from slots 0-3. To get a truly great start, one would need to start multiple new games and pick the trial with the greatest success.
 
Finished the space conquest linked 2100 BC. But that was just research. Only building one component and happiness not being much of an issue.

Hmm.. Missed the refining requirement of having The Corporation, adding 7 needed techs I hadn't counted on. Though 4 of them I had already researched to get to Republic early and get RailRoad.

Could have shaved of at least a couple of turns by late micromanagement but didn't bother. Did some initial save/load to get hut luck, and after that it was basically just 100% science, build settlers if you can, otherwise caravans. Find a convenient time to increase population with We Love The President days, and have one city build a wonder that can be converted to an SS module when the time was right.

Ended up building temples & oracle when increasing population. Could have done that way more optimal to shave of some more turns.
 
I just want to say thanks for this - particularly the interesting list of tactics.

As someone who only recently came back to Civ 1 after a long hiatus (haven't played it since my early teens), I'm discovering depths and approaches to the game here that I simply had never considered before. It's really all quite fascinating. I love the notion of the space race with the intent of building your ship before the end of the BC era. Now I have a challenge to tackle tonight!
 
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