Right of Passage / MPP's

[steviejay]

can anyone tell me if I heard correctly that Computer Civ's WONT break a treaty with you because of the rep hit? I'm kinda preying I am cause the Egyptians have moved a shockingly large amount of troops into my teritory and I don't think they are sending them to attack another Civ

 

[Chieftess]

I think that's they won't -sign- a treaty if you caused a rep hit.

 

[steviejay]

so even if I have BOTH a MPP and a Right of Passage they'll still kick the living daylights out of me? crap

 

[RX2000]

They usually wont sneak attack with an MPP unless you have played dirty a lot in the game too. They dont seem to mind breaking RoPs much tho.

 

[MTheil3508]

If the units are not protecting settlers and they are not going to a civ that they are at war with, you probally will get sneak attacked. The only time I have seen AI units protecting your territory during MMPs is in the water, never on land.

 

[tao]

If you have a ROP, always garrison all your cities, especially once railroads allow fast movement. It is really really annoying, if your unguarded capital is razed in a sneak attack!

 

[superslug]

I don't know what the AI is programmed to do, but it seems like in any Civ game, the AI is capable of just about ANYTHING. Maybe it's just me, but the other day Spain was 'gracious' with me one turn, then declared war with me, razed three cities, signed a peace treaty and went back to being gracious.

Funny how orange Madrid was three thousand years later....

 

[Protaxis]

So what happened, steviejay? Did they betray your trust and attack you, or were they just sightseeing?

No doubt, the computer can be unpredictable. In my last game, after several long "border expansion" campaigns, I made peace and settled into build mode. The Persians, always such a nice group of people, saw my Zulu Empire grown fat and lazy, neglecting its army. Then, Xerxes, being the cunning opportunist that he is, rolled about 10 knights and 10 immortals (while I was still on swordsmen and pikemen) across my borders and succeeded in completely overthrowing my civilization, with the help of his French companions (and their damned Musketeers).

Talk about cutthroat. I never actually declared war or did anyone wrong in my previous campaigns to hurt my rep. They simply saw a bloated, undefended nation and took advantage of it.

 

[steviejay]

I have over 85 Units on that border alone. But the Egyptians just started to attack. They were Polite towards me, we had a MPP and a Right of Passage and they still attacked. I fended off the first 'wave' rather well I think. using my Cavalry to take out the units traveling home to regenerate. Once their turn was over I launched about 30 Cavalry into Egyptian teritory and took one of their cities (can't remember the name) which had their only supply of rubber meaning they couldn't build Infantary. Unfortunately what I was kinda hoping wouldn't happen did. As the Egyptians were agressors and also broke 2 treaties with me I was under the (false) impression that other Civ's that had MPP's with her woulddn't honour them, unfortunately they did. so now I'm up against the French (not worried about, signed an alliace with the Russians to get them out the way) and the Indians (quite worried about)

What really annoys me more is that the Spanish, who I have never even as much as annoyed throughout the entire game. sent a Caravel with ONE UNIT and land it in my soft underbelly and take 1 City!! they just declared war on me for no reason!!!! they are too far away to launch a successful attack on me but I had to take units away from the frontlines just to retake the city. grrrrr

I on something like my 4th or 5th turn into the battle and a rather large army of War Elephants have just appeared at my borders. I'm rather weakened but I'm getting units more or less every turn or so which go directly into battle via my railways but its getting to the point where I'm slowly being worn down, and when these Indians launch their attack I'm not sure how I can counter it.

I was informed (somewhere on this forum quite a while ago) that if you take two of the enemies cities they will no longer refuse your envoy. If I can take the Egyptians out of the battle it will be a HELL OF ALOT easier but I just don't have the units to get round to another Egyptian city. I could russel up a few Cavalry, probably quite alot really. but I'm using that to atack the units on its way to attack me. try and wear them down before they get to my cities

Sorry about the rather large explanation. I'm now off to try and
try and pull a rabbit out my hat.

See ya

 

[cromagnon]

As the Egyptians were agressors and also broke 2 treaties with me I was under the (false) impression that other Civ's that had MPP's with her woulddn't honour them, unfortunately they did

They did this because they didn't have a MPP with you. If (before Egypt attacked) you had signed MPP's with a few of Egypts neighbors, they would have declared war against Egypt when they launched their offensive, even if they already had MPPs with Egypt too.

MPPs kick in for the defenders, not the offenders.

 

[steviejay]

Originally posted by cromagnon


They did this because they didn't have a MPP with you. If (before Egypt attacked) you had signed MPP's with a few of Egypts neighbors, they would have declared war against Egypt when they launched their offensive, even if they already had MPPs with Egypt too.

MPPs kick in for the defenders, not the offenders.

tried that. I'm about as popular as sand in underwear

 

[DaveMcW]

Just send an envoy to all your enemies every turn. Eventually they will talk.

 

[philippe]

And use a lot of bombard units to weaken that enemy of you

 

[wilbill]

Originally posted by steviejay
What really annoys me more is that the Spanish, who I have never even as much as annoyed throughout the entire game. sent a Caravel with ONE UNIT and land it in my soft underbelly and take 1 City!! they just declared war on me for no reason!!!! they are too far away to launch a successful attack on me but I had to take units away from the frontlines just to retake the city. grrrrr

From their point of view they had a great reason to declare war on you - a city they could take with one unit. The AI is very opportunistic and lightly defended cities are an invitation for them to attack.

 

[RX2000]

If you would have fought purely defensively and not have invaded Egypt, the MPPs wouldnt have been activated. They activate as soon as you try to pillage improvements, or attack in your enemies territory. If someone attacks you and you fight a purely defensive war, you'll never have to fight their MPP allies.

 

[darious001]

War sucks. Imagine having a small little settlement with enough of one lux to have it monopolized, and sent to every other civ in the world, and then having the French say FU because you wouldn't trade maps, that's pretty ****ty.

 

[Yndy]

Originally posted by tao
If you have a ROP, always garrison all your cities, especially once railroads allow fast movement. It is really really annoying, if your unguarded capital is razed in a sneak attack!

After Railroads I block all my borders with units to avoid such things.

 

[Aggie]

Yndy: isn't that an exploit? The AI can't seem to judge this blocking of the border the right way... They should get furious of your deal breaking

 

[Yndy]

An exploit? I think I'm entitled to defend my borders even if I have ROP with one civ. I don't think the AI gets mad about this.
This is the same as using units to block the shore against an invasion. Anyway somtimes my borders are so large that I don't have enough units to block them.

 

[Grille]

Originally posted by steviejay
so even if I have BOTH a MPP and a Right of Passage they'll still kick the living daylights out of me? crap

Once played Rome and got MPP & ROP
with Persia. They started on another
continent and were polite towards me,
although overall my rep was even worse
than sand in underware (had got iron
very early, hehe).
I was at war with what was left of Egypt.
Persia landed a large invasion force
to support me.
As Egypt was too fragile, Persia
came too late and i burried Egypt.
Last other civ on continent were furious
Aztecs.
Nothing to do for them, Persian troops
crept up to the center of my empire.
If they were heading for Aztecs, they
had to take another direction - so i was
in fear that they go for a stike on me!
I just decided to declare war on Aztecs
(who needs neighbors on 'his' continent?)
and - it worked: Aztecs (had no MPP with
Persia) attacked me,
Persia joined war against them with
their forces to act as first wave for
my offensive.
Well, i didn't load autosave to see what
could have happened if i had not taken
over initiative, but i'm pretty sure that
Persia went for me.
So this might be a (ok:warmongering)
strategy to prevent things happen like
steviejay's war. Better take the war
to a place where it's useful for you
instead of getting kicked with pants
down.