Sanitation and Adventurers

GrandSultan

Full Time Hypocrite
Joined
May 23, 2004
Messages
141
Location
Albuquerque, NM
Recently started a game as the Grigori, only to find myself on a pseudo-archepelago (the bits of land were connected by thin strips of land) COVERED in jungle. I start to see the extent of this jungle, and I start to groan and my cursor starts hovering over the menu button.

Why? Because it take me until halfway through the game too get Sanitation in a jungle start. This makes as much sense as No Child Left Behind; im already severly penalized in production and, most importantly, in commerce thanks to the jungle start, and the only way to alleviate me of that is by researching a fourth tier tech that I can really get until halfway through the game, at which point its an uphill battle to climb that score chart where even the lowest civ is still several 100 points ahead of me.

Why not move the ability to chop jungles to Bronze Working so as not to further penalize the person on the jungle start? If its a question of making Sanitation useful, right now thats all its really useful for anyways unless one is going for the culture victory, or is luxury poor (public baths are nice at times.), and I find it annoying rather than actually making Sanitation desirable.

Secondly, I was persuing a Enchantment III Fire III, Twincasting archmage plan with my adventurers. Deciding I wanted some Magic Resistance and Mobility for these guys, I plan on building the Eternal Flame and hooking up my second node as an enchantment node, since the above path uses all their promotions. I finally get this all hooked up (thanks to a great engineer), and I upgrade my adventurers to adepts, and what do I see? No free promotions! Whats the reasoning behind this, if any, or is it just an oversight?

Thanks in advance.
 
Set fire to the jungle, that'll sort it out. I don't think upgrading to a unit counts as building that unit, so they won't pick up the mana promos. Then again, adventurer adepts get enough experience to pick up plenty of spheres anyway.
 
a specific plan before knowing the terrain you'll be on is not usually wise and often frustrating.

The point wasn't that I couldn't execute my plan because of the jungle, the point is you cant execute any plans in a jungle, hence me wanting to move jungle choppin up to Bronze Working, and not have it at Sanitation.
 
eternal flame is gone gone gone
Yeah, speaking about that, does anyone know exactly why two of the best wonders in the game were removed? The changelog says they were removed, but not why. I can guess why Eternal Flame got axed (free fireballs for all mages could get a little abusive), but what was wrong with Core of the Subtle?
 
I believe complaints over it making your workers into the best spies in the game.

(perhaps could be balanced by only giving them invisibility while they were inside your borders)
 
Best spies? I must have been thinking too defensively. It never occurred to me to send my valuable and used-to-be instantly destroyed workers off into other lands.
 
Well in those kind of starts I'll either restart, or go so aggressive I take my enemies land with just brute force!
 
(perhaps could be balanced by only giving them invisibility while they were inside your borders)

I'd always assumed that was how it worked anyway :) That's not something difficult to code as far as I understand it (Homeland works that way already, and the issues with border expansions and other things which aren't covered by OnUnitMove would be far less problematic with workers. I guess you might need a placeholder promotion which would triger in your borders to give invisibility since you couldn't make it intrinsic to the unit, but that's doable and opens up its own rather interesting possibilites elsewhere - very Shadow-y). Plus, it was always a neat idea, especially when it's so easy to move 4 or 5 tiles per turn even very early on, and some huge number with mobility promos and haste spells.

Jungle chopping at BW would be earlier than vanilla, contrasting with the mod's theme of forcing you to work around the environment for a while until you can force it to work around you later. Besides, burning it's more effective anyway - it eventually turns into lovely forests you can chop for hammers, put lumbermills in, turn into Ancient Forests, etc etc.
 
Sanitation isn't THAT far away, and until I reach it I find I can focus on other sectors, be them water or such, true you'll lose in production but your food doesn't suffer so greatly.

Towards pure jungle locations, well that is just plain bad luck...
 
Compare surrounded by jungles to surrounded by tundra and i'd rather have the former. Sanitation jungle comes well before you can get Archmages w/ Nature 3 or Druids and as stated, you can try burning it.

I love hardship elements of the environment and i love terraforming. I just wish the AI would do it.

- feydras
 
True, that annoys me sometimes, though it is why I love the Elves! :)

Still it seems foolish that jungle can be tackled before Bronze, and depending on the map I do it a lot, since I can normally get good return for Sanitation from the Ai.
 
I think that only units built after you get multiple fire nodes get the free fire promotions - perhaps that was preventing your adventurers from getting the free fire?
 
I believe complaints over it making your workers into the best spies in the game.

(perhaps could be balanced by only giving them invisibility while they were inside your borders)

I could swear it only worked on workers in your borders.

I found that out when I sent an unprotected worker to build a road to connect a city and he got killed the turn he moved into neutral territory.
 
Why doesn't Fellowship convert jungle to forest?

because it doesn't need to be buffed anymore- at the most, one might consider a side tech off the founding tech for jungle "conversion" abilities
 
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