Save game review

[AmbientOrange]

really? great here is my save... after few more moves i simply gave up - it felt i would fight for eternity if i want to win.No clue what went wrong
my savegame -
http://www.filefactory.com/file/ahh8g8d/n/naujas_sav

plz evaluate -
also i will go read some heavy strategy guide.i was very surprised by the size of information is there

 

[vmxa]

Lets see if a mod will move the link and your post to a new thread to not impact this thread.

 

[vmxa]

This is PTW, but it loaded in C3C. You are in 970AD and have 4 cities. Actually they are not even cities, they are towns. You had a less than fabulous start location, but this is Chief. I would want to have

a) exposed all the map that had land
b) no less than 20 towns and be at least most of the way finished with the Industrial Age.

When you see you have no water, you have to go get some. When you see you are in the far end, you know you are going to have to take land from others.

You are Xerxes, so you need to maximize the Immortals. That mean make lots of them and then take out your neighbors.

You should have packed in towns on your end of the world. It is like being on a small island. You have little in the way of land and you need to get down as many towns as you can, CxxC, not ICS.

Playing Chief, you really do not need temples, except to expand borders. In a setting like this, not even that is required. Just fill in the land instead.

You have 2 workers, you cannot do anything with two workers. Immortals require spears to go with them to handle the defense. Not because spears are stronger, but because they are cheaper. Let them die on defense, rather than you more expensive Immortals.

You would not be seeing that settler combo coming in there, if you filled in the land. You have no settlers to fill in any of the open space. when at war, have some settlers to plant in open spaces or towns you may raze.

 

[Turner]

Lets see if a mod will move the link and your post to a new thread to not impact this thread.

Done.

 

[Spartanism]

NEVER Play Chieftan level: It creates bad habits and in many cases makes it harder to play because of the lack of research of AIs.

2 workers per city

Build cities as fast as possible. Avoid buildings untill you have as many cities as possible. IMHO the 1st building you should build is a Library unless you need a large army and then its barracks.

 

[AmbientOrange]

well thank u for review.
After posting 1st review i got an idea to save my saves separately so i can later watch them and/or if good guys will review them

about this review - i didnt needed any workers because cities were growing already nicely. Well i had immortals but at that time i should have replaced them with something else, im not sure with what.
Another matter is im not sure how ai was advanced, i guess i abit more in tech tree.
How long you guys play one match vs ai?

p.s. i play civ3 gold and i dont know what CXXC and ICS and PTW means
p.p.s. i will place few more savegames then i finish my match.This time its somehow a fight for land - that means i cant simply go fighting because i wont speed up with settlers and workers.

 

[Bartleby]

PTW is the Civ 3 Play the World expansion. I believe it's part of Civ 3 Gold.

CXXC is a shorthand way to refer to a fairly close city spacing, you have two tiles inbetween your cities. They don't have to be on a rigid grid, but for the most part the longest path from one city to the next will be thee steps, which means a one-move unit can get there in one turn over roads (once there are no rivers or you've researched Engineering).

ICS (Infinite City Sprawl) is another city spacing term which means the cities are packed as tightly as possible to get many cities into a small area. Some people call this CXC...theres only one spare tile between each city.

 

[vmxa]

AmbientOrange

"about this review - i didnt needed any workers because cities were growing already nicely. Well i had immortals but at that time i should have replaced them with something else, im not sure with what."

You must have workers and lots of them. You need to make roads on all tiles. You need to put down mines or irrigate. You had no water so irrigation will have to wait until you have Electricity.

You need to have these roads and mines as soon as you have a citizen working a given tile. Workers and settlers were going to be some what problematic for you as you had no water. Still you have to make them.

Cities were not growing nicely, in fact you had no cities, only towns. A city is 7 to 12 in size. Growing nicely means, to me, gaining a pop at a +3 or there about rate.

You needed a lot more towns, that is how you pay for research and units. You really had nothing to replace Immortals with at that point. If you had a few spears to go into battle with those Immortals, you would do better.

Do not spread out your forces. That is what the AI does, say you had 8 Immortals. If you had4 spears with them you could have two stacks. 4 immortals and 2 spears in each.

They would take down those towns, if you get there before they get pikes. Hold the town or raze it. Move on to the next and the spear would defend, if the stacks were attacked.

"Another matter is im not sure how ai was advanced, i guess i abit more in tech tree.
How long you guys play one match vs ai? "

You were down on Feudalism as I recall. This shows how weak the AI plays at Chief. You would have been eliminated even at Regent with those holding at 970AD.

I would expect most play until they either have won or lost or the end is in sight. If you mean in terms of real time, that can be up to hundreds of hours in a like 250x250 with 30 civ play a conquest only Always War.

I would guess 40 hours is common for a std maps.

"p.p.s. i will place few more savegames then i finish my match.This time its somehow a fight for land - that means i cant simply go fighting because i wont speed up with settlers and workers. "

I am not sure I understand this one. Most games will be a fight for land. I again suggest you read one of the low level SG's. Pick one that was completed. You could also just read the thread in the Strategy Articles I wrote as a tutorial for Regent players.

You will see some concepts and tactics explained that should help you.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=296512

 

[AmbientOrange]

thanks for link. This website + forum is too big to look everywhere
Im sorry im asking from your old thread, you probably forgot and dont even want to remember but im really curious about some things...

some questions about your save game review
i didnt understood these parts at all: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=296512

1. "What do we research first? Well a common scheme is to hit F10 and see who is in the game. Map out their traits and starting techs. We have 2 others with Alpha. We have 3 others with Masonry. So our techs may not be worth much, depends on who meets whom and when. Pottery is known to 5 and BW is known to 2. WC by 2. Lots of over lap. What is the plan? I intent to play a non AW game. I intend to not be very aggressive in the early game."

when i press f10 all i see is unmade useless rocket scheme not other tribes with their tech tree.

2. "3450BC worker starts irrigation. I maybe should mention the worker turns choices here. We are industrious, so we are going to get the road up and the irrigation up within the next growth cycle. If we irrigated first, we would have gotten 2,2,2,3,3 for 12 food. We grow in 5 with 2 extra. Now we will still grow in 5, but at the end we have the same output with 3 extra gold. This is because we got the extra commerce while we irrigated."

so its better to make roads before mining/irrigating?

3. "IBT: Pacchu offers Pottery for Alpha. That is a 43 beaker tech for a 110 beaker one. Here is a choice that you can go anyway you want. We could hold Alpha and risk it being worthless when they met someone that has it or trade it. I make this deal: Alpha and CB for Pottery and WC and 30 gold. Not an equal one, but we now have the ability to make a granary and archers. We may need them, if we have neither horses or iron."

How do you check which tech costs certain turns? when some ai speaks i cant press f5 at that time to watch if my tech requires more time to get it, than his.
Another small question - when some ai wants to get world map or trade tech i cant recognize if he is from that red camp in south, or its that from green camp in north.

4. "3100BC pop a warrior. I should have mentioned we dropped research to 10%."

There you droped research rate. Does it makes years go slower, so you can build faster or years goes always same way but you simply made research slower?

 

[vmxa]

I forgot what did this morning, but here goes:

"when i press f10 all i see is unmade useless rocket scheme not other tribes with their tech tree."

If you do not have Space Ship enabled as a victory condition you will not have any data in the F10 screen. I do not recall, if that is the case in your game, but I am sure it is the reason.

Some consider that a cheat and do not use it. I normally do not use it, but for completeness I wanted to mention it. If you do not know who is in the game, then you proceed with the tech path as best you can.

I normally do no have to consider those things as I have played so many games I have a "feel" for the way to proceed.

There are studies that point to what the AI preferences are in techs and you can use that as a guide.

""2. "3450BC worker starts irrigation. I maybe should mention the worker turns choices here. We are industrious, so we are going to get the road up and the irrigation up within the next growth cycle. If we irrigated first, we would have gotten 2,2,2,3,3 for 12 food. We grow in 5 with 2 extra. Now we will still grow in 5, but at the end we have the same output with 3 extra gold. This is because we got the extra commerce while we irrigated."

so its better to make roads before mining/irrigating?""

It depends on what you need to accomplish and factors such as your traits and the tiles. My point there was to give you a nudge to think about the choice, rather than just shoot from the hip.

Cracker explains the OPENING MOVE" in the War Academy. It tells you how to put a value on tiles and to proceed from that knowledge.

"How do you check which tech costs certain turns? when some ai speaks i cant press f5 at that time to watch if my tech requires more time to get it, than his.
Another small question - when some ai wants to get world map or trade tech i cant recognize if he is from that red camp in south, or its that from green camp in north."

First you can use a number of tools to check on the cost of a given tech. I originally wrote an Excel app to calc it. Later I found a tool here called TechCalc. Still later Mapstat and now CivAssist II.

These are in the utility section. They all use the known formula for what a tech cost on a given map and level. Each tech has a base cost and you multiply that based on the factor for the map size and the difficulty level.

This yields the total beakers needed to learn the tech. This is reduced based on the number of nations you know that know that tech. It is further reduced by the number, if any, of beakers already put into that tech.

So you come up with a value. This is just a true cost, not a true value. I mean that if it is a tech that offers a new government or unit or wonder the value is increased.

Beakers equal gold.

The nations all have a color assigned at the start of the game. In a game with no modifications, you tend to learn the colors. In C3C you can have 30 other nations, so that is not much help.

Here a tool like CAII can be used to look at the nations and the color. I know the leaders by heart, so If Khan shows up I know what nation he is represents.

""4. "3100BC pop a warrior. I should have mentioned we dropped research to 10%."

There you droped research rate. Does it makes years go slower, so you can build faster or years goes always same way but you simply made research slower?""

I would have to read that portion to be sure. I do not have the full context. It would either be"

a) we will learn the tech in the next turn at the new lower rate
b) decided we do not need to research full out right now
c) need to raise some cash for something.

I would say it is almost certainly do to the break through coming next turn at 10%. This is a normal tactic at the end of a tech. You often can dial it down for a turn or two and save cash and get the tech in the same time frame.

 

[splunge the 2nd]

In the game cited, raoding first makd more sense as the town grew at the same time and you ended up with more gold having the road first. There may be instances where irrigating first would have been more beneficial. I myself am a more casual player and don't calculate out the optimal improvement plan but at higher levels of difficulty "micromanaging" becomes more necessary.

As to figuring relative values of different technologies- in the trade window you can see what techs you have that the enemy AI doesn't and vice versa. In the technology adviser screen you can review the tech tree and see how long it'll take to learn a tech and therfore figure relatively how expensive it is to learn. You can't switch easily from negotiating a deal to the tech screen, but there's no reason you can't stop trade dealing, review your techs and then reopen talks.ake life much easier if the techs ech had a set price, but unfortunately it depends on how many civs are in a given game and (if I understand this) how many other civs know the given tech. The AI also values some techs more than others even if they cost the same to acquire by research.

oops. cross post

 

[The Professor]

when i press f10 all i see is unmade useless rocket scheme not other tribes with their tech tree

There should be a button that says "View Space Race", or something similar. When you click on it, there will be a list of the civilizations in the game, saying "We need a spy with the Iroquois," etc. for each tribe actually in the game. This allows you to see what other civ's are in the game from the very beginning. Some people prefer to be suprised, and there is no guarantee that just because there are two industrious tribes in the game, for instance, that you will meet them any time soon.

 

[vmxa]

Thanks Professor. I should have considered that he may not have recognized the View or tried it. You are correct that you may not met them in time to impact any trades or reduce your cost to research a tech or have any influence on science, in term of opening tech choice.

If you are on an island, it is likely that you will not met any or many nation(s) prior to Astronomy. If you are on a Pan map, it still could be a long time, if you have few civs in the game and the map is quite large.