Science 1400BC

[Leowind]

currently researching Monarchy, our queue calls for going after Philosophy next, with Currency and Trade as standby techs if none on the path to Philosophy are available.

The Indians starting Colossus has changed the situation a bit, however, and several have been talking about the advantages of having Trade to build Caravans to help OUR colossus along. So I'm posting this poll to decide to continue to make Philosophy our primary goal, or whether to switch to Trade as our primary goal. It will take us two techs to get Trade, assuming we don't have to take an alternate along the way. Philosophy is thee techs away IIRC (We have Writing now, correct?)

 

[GaryNemo]

Yes, we have Writing. We are discussing building a Diplomat or Library. Trade may give us a shot at Colossus in Regia Civitas. Then Philosophy and Mike's ... or Map Making. Good poll, though, this will surely determine a winner. Ainwood might like it.

 

[ainwood]

Originally posted by GaryNemo
Yes, we have Writing. We are discussing building a Diplomat or Library. Trade may give us a shot at Colossus in Regia Civitas. Then Philosophy and Mike's ... or Map Making. Good poll, though, this will surely determine a winner. Ainwood might like it.

I've been a bit busy in the last day or two to read these threads properly - a heck of a lot of info to absorb!

How many turns (at current rate) are we from the Collosus? Finishing Monarchy should speed it a bit, but I think that if we then have to research two more techs (minimum), then build caravans, then move caravans to Elysium, then we may be pretty close to finishing the collosus anyway, without the caravans.

However, to get full advantage from the Collosus, we want trade routes set up ASAP - ideally with the other civs. This in itself may be a pretty good reason to head for trade.

As another consideration, why don't we consider going for fuedalism, at least as a alternative tech? SunTzu's would be quite handy, especially if we develop the north-east 4-specials as a production power-house and have an early war with the indians (and the russians, and vikings ). However, we could always get it as a philosophy freebie.

Straight to philosphy also means getting mysticism, which is a bit of a useless tech in that it doesn't give any immediate benefit, and literacy - although we don't really want the GL. However, going to philosophy also opens up astronomy (copernicus).



Well, I'm talking myself out of coming to a conclusion, but I think this: War can wait. Trade probably won't help us finish the collosus any faster. Go for philosophy, then hopefully use the extra techs to get astronomy and currency or straight to trade.

 

[duke o' york]

Originally posted by ainwood
Straight to philosphy also means getting mysticism, which is a bit of a useless tech in that it doesn't give any immediate benefit, and literacy - although we don't really want the GL. However, going to philosophy also opens up astronomy (copernicus).

Mysticism is not useless because it increases the power of temples (not that we have any yet) from making 2 unhappy people content to 3!

I believe that trade will benefit us more in the long term than a free tech because the trade routes can be established earlier and therefore worth more over time.
However, I do like the techs after Philosophy and this should be the direction we head in. Once we have Mike's then we have a decent chance of setting up a working Republic and afterwards Democracy.

 

[ainwood]

Originally posted by duke o' york



Mysticism is not useless because it increases the power of temples (not that we have any yet) from making 2 unhappy people content to 3!

Oops - I thought you actually needed to build the oracle to do that.

 

[MonkE]

How many turns (at current rate) are we from the Collosus?

47 turns.

War can wait. Trade probably won't help us finish the collosus any faster.

I agree completely, but to me the real question on trade is: When will our cities be able to turn their production to caravans for trade routes? If that's far enough down the road, we may as well get philosophy first (Mysticism/Literacy, Philosophy, take Currency as the free tech, Trade). This is the path to the most critical wonders (Mike's Chapel and Copernicus). Our current priorities seem to be expanding to more cities first, then we'll have the ability to build trade routes later.

we want trade routes set up ASAP - ideally with the other civs

Yes, there is an immediate bonus for trading with other civs, BUT in the long term it's a two edged sword as it increases THEIR science. I am more in favor of each of our cities establishing (preferably 3) trade routes with our Colossus city. As the AI isn't necessarily so good at growing its trade, this will let ALL of our cities benefit from growth of the Colossus city. Science is maximized and there can be more luxuries (Republic, here we come).

why don't we consider going for fuedalism

Sun Tzu works for me as a nice extra, especially to deny it to the AI.

Go for philosophy, then hopefully use the extra techs to get astronomy and currency or straight to trade.

Yes!!

 

[Leowind]

IIRC Mysticism by itself does nothing. You need to build the Oracle to get the increase in temple effectiveness (somebody please correct me if this is incorrect). Very few players go after the Oracle because it expires so soon. There are other more important wonders at this stage.

 

[MonkE]

The Civilopedia says a temple alone makes 1 content, 2 with Mysticism. The Oracle doubles whatever you have.

 

[GaryNemo]

I've also found Mysticism increases Temples from1 to 2. It will be a great relief.

I have voted for Trade, thinking of Caravans to build the people's Wonders. I'd really like Colossus with HG in RC. But there are strong arguments around here in various places that Elysium actually is the better choice (once we get to Democracy, I guess).

Most important, the point has been raised, are we going to build Settlers or Caravans? I'm sure I'd prefer Settlers and Many Cities, even Fillers. So if we get to do that, which btw will boost our science like crazy, then maybe Trade is not so important. ... I'll take the Settlers -- do whatever you want with the Science. We have HG and Monarchy, and that was THE MOST important.

MonkE, I really appreciate your sharp analysis. I noticed you are also suggesting the diplomatic style of war -- very efficient. And your Fast Monarchy plan is ahead in the polls! If I may Deputise you, I will in an instant!

 

[Philosopher12]

Research the techs to Trade while getting to Philosophy. Then, when we get Philosophy, get Trade as the extra.

 

[Ren]

Don't forget, for the tech bonus with Philosophy, we must get there first!