Seeking Advice for All Civ Challenge Series

[Feyd Rautha]

Hey all,

I have really fallen in love with the Fall from Heaven 2 mod, so much so that I am at a point where I want to set up a standard set of rules to use for an All Civ Challenge Series. I realize that the sheer number of civilization and leader combos in FFH makes this something that will be a nearly impossible task (at least in terms of keeping my interest for the next year or so), but I wanted to give it a shot.

My question to all of you, however, is what settings do you think would best enhance the aspects of Fall from Heaven?

My custom settings are typically as follows...

• Raging Barbs
• Barbarian World
• City Flip after Conquest
• No Tech Brokering
• Permanent Alliances
• New Random Seed on Reload (I try to only allow myself one reroll)
• Lock Modified Assets (otherwise I'd be a world builder junkie)
• No Vassals (until they allow me to cancel vassals I accepted before and now want to simply kill off)
• Wildlands
• Blessing of Amathaon
• Living World
• All Unique Features
• Time Victory Disabled (I will take as long as I darn well please!)
• Cultural Victory Disabled (I always found the idea of a "victory" based on culture to be rather silly)

Occasionally I will also play with...

• Slower XP (if playing Epic or Marathon)
• Compact Enforced (not a big fan of the direct divine influence in any game)
• No Orthus (I only choose this about half the time, but it's too easy for him to knock out rival civs [or me] for me to really LIKE him in the game)
• No Settlers (I actually haven't chosen this option before, but I was strongly considering it. I can only imagine the nightmare though if there was no way to get copper or iron not to mention giving the Kurioates an almost unfair advantage)

As you can see I'm pretty set in my ways when it comes to game options, but when it comes to a map I'm almost always up in the air. With so many options and questions to consider, I often find it hard to choose.

For example, should I play on a map that will support the civilization I'm choosing (Islands for Lanun, Arboria for Svalt or Ljos, Arid for Malkim, etc.)? It feels cheap when I do this, but shouldn't I see the civ in its "element"?

Generally speaking, I dislike "pangea" type maps because I dislike ignoring the naval side of things. As I'm generally a builder I also prefer maps that give me some ability to keep my lands isolated from the rest of the world. Mainly this is because I am not a big fan of having to go to war because some stupid AI thought it would be a great idea to send a settler behind my "border cities" to grab some real estate I had already set for my own "manifest destiny".

Anyway, I guess there are two decisions ahead of me. Do I play a map that highlights the best aspects of the civilization I'm choosing or do I play the same map for every civ regardless of how they will fare?

If I'm playing one set map here are some thoughts I have for options...

• Erebus (It is named for the lands where FFH is set and definitely fits my isolationist tendencies, but I'm not a huge fan of the poor city locations that are typically presented nor with the general lack of any need for a navy).
• Custom Continents (I like this option, but it always seems that even though I choose options which would make three continents with an even number of civs on each, there is always one continent with too many civs that winds up stifling them all or a continent with only one civ on it that causes that civ to generally fall behind or be inconsequential)
• Earth 2 (A great map for having lots of civs with plenty of space to spread. I know the terrain though and if the random locations pick too many European starts those civs get crowded way too fast and often stifle)
• Inland Sea (Naval options to a point and the ability to still create a "border" by going from the sea to the edge of the map, but it seems as if it could be too restrictive like many of the no "world wrap" maps I have played)
• Maze (I've not played this one, but perhaps a good option? I'm going to test a game on a Maze map, but would this be too much in favor of the Lanun?)
• Arboria (A great map with lots of forests and temperate zones, but this is just ridiculously OP for Svalt or Ljos and since chopping comes later can really cause a slow economy for everyone else)

Anyway, lots to consider, but if I could get some input on what settings would best exemplify everyone's general approach AND explore the game the best by putting each civ on equal footing that would be awesome. Thanks in advance and I promise I'll try not to put up any more walls of text like this one

 

[Tielby]

I've played many games with all civs represented and LOVE it, but really the only fair way to play such games is to randomize the world settings. Shuffle map, random sea level and humidity. And I just hate no-wrap worlds.

 

[Feyd Rautha]

Sorry I think there were two points of confusion...

1.) I intend to play each civ not to play a single game with each civ represented. I love huge maps and will probably play with the default 11 civs on such a map.

2.) My main goal with this is to test out each civ given the same settings including map settings. Given the same basics how will each civ fare in other words. Shuffle sinks that option because while the Ljos may get a pangea, Svalts could wind up with an islands...

 

[loffenx]

The AI cannot really handle No Settlers, every time I use it I have ended up with three or so conquered barb cities with most AIs still stuck at one or locked in stalemates vs. eachother.

Barbarian world and raging barbarians are a bit tricky as far as "challenges" goes, my experience is that they hamper the AI civs more than the player.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

Sisiutil tweaked the map settings for his ALC games according to the civ he was playing. If you want to be faithful to that, do so.

 

[psychoak]

The impact of barbs is greatly dependent on difficulty setting. At noble, they get hosed by them because of the inadequate defense problems. At deity, even the tougher barb units generally fall to scouts because of the massive combat modifier they get. In a nice, spacious map, you wind up with level 6 units walking all over the place. Then you die.

 

[DarkxL0rd]

no settlers is awesome! on high difficulty games i won't play any other way. and don't worry about a lack of cities. barbarians easily take care of that! right now in my deity game i have 21 cities and there's still 9 other civs on the map. needless to say, you gotta be quick on the jump in the early game to get nearby cities before the AI does.

 

[Feyd Rautha]

So that's one vote for setting the map to match the civ. I like this, but I'm still torn. The more I think about it the more I'm in favor of a "side by side" comparison as it were. That said, if I decide on a map I might be in favor of changing the side settings to better match the civilization. Cold for Doviello and Illian, Arid for Malkim, High seas for Lanun, etc.)

I can understand about the no settlers/barb world issues. I don't think I'd use it for the ALC series, but it sounds like it would be a great side jaunt experience.

Does nobody have any thoughts on the map to use? I've played a couple games on Inland Sea to get a feel for it, and so far I'm liking it. It allows for a lot of land battles and easy access to other civs, but it also has the option for adding some naval battles to get around heavily fortified border areas.

One last thing I'm going to try is the Wheel map. I made a few test maps to check and if the settings are put to "Tropical" for the climate and Torodial for world wrap then it makes for a really cool map.

 

[readercolin]

For maps, here are a few more for you to try.

Global Highlands. Lots of hills, lots of production. Generally there is 1-2 continents (especially if you choose the massive continents game option). It is also a very large map - I would highly recommend putting extra civs on it as even with double the number of civs you can often end up with space for 6-8+ cities if you move quickly. Also with the large number of hills, city size will be smaller, but the average production of all your cities will be higher, making it easier to build buildings, wonders, and units. It makes for a rather active game - always a good thing right?

Tectonics - any of them really, but especially Mediterranean. It forms a large map that follows weather patterns of areas fairly well, and all but the mediterranean maps can be wrapped. The mediterranean one is the one that I play the most though and it makes for very large games that can easily support 2x or more extra civs and still have plenty of space around most civs. Some starting spots will leave you hosed for the game though.

Hemispheres. This map can have 2-6 continents, and islands of varying sizes. With massive continents selected, you can put on 2x the civs with every civ having enough space for 4 cities (standard size), sometimes more if you move quickly. As it has 2+ continents, on large maps with plenty of civs you can play through with just the civs on your continent, or travel between them and become a powerful naval force. To win by conquering (or domination), you can't neglect either your army or your navy... though to win through builderstyle you can neglect your navy due to the crappy naval AI.

Another advantage of these three maps is that (if you have flavorstart - you will need a mod for this, though many of them have it), you can play with any civ and find a section of the map that you civ will really excel in. The lanuan will have plenty of coast, the elves will have lots of forest, the dwarves plenty of hills, etc. I wouldn't recommend global highlands for the calibam though - the lack of flat spots will drastically reduce your massive city economy.

-Colin

Edit - wheel, ring, and hub make for great, fairly balanced multiplayer maps - there is enough space to expand and you will have your own little area to start off in. The problem though is it is very difficult to attack someone on the other side of the map, as (especially on the faster gamespeeds) they often have upgraded to a higher teir unit set by the time your forces finally get there. This is also a problem with the mediterranian map as well. After a while you also get used to it and it becomes a rather boring game though.

 

[Feyd Rautha]

I did a few hundred turns on a "Wheel" map and I found that if you have Torodial set as the world wrap option you are actually able to get to the person directly opposite you faster than pretty much anyone. After looking at about a dozen "Wheel" map spawns it would be awesome if after all the civs have spawned, the central core is populated with a fairly large contingent of Illians.