SG: Queen Teuta

[Hypnotoad]

Strategically, I like the idea of taking out the Dacians because right now we are surrounded by other Civs. I would like to develop a hinterland that we could keep basically undefended. But the Dacians have those strength 4 hunters, so they might actually be one of the harder people to attack. And Shqype likes them Maybe we should wait for them to become more technologically backwards, then take them out.

So that leaves the Germans and the Scythians. The Scythians aren't that close to us yet. It would be ballsy and fun to attack the Germans to get to the Romans. But we would be in for a big war. Probably best to build up our boats and go sack Rome.

 

[Shqype]

I'de say the Germans after Rome, if not the Dacians .....

 

[SrWilliam]

If Rome won't make peace with us I think we would have to fight Rome.

If we want a safe small war I think we should make peace with Rome and fight the Germans and score some fruit/crabs.

If we want to slug it out and gain some material gains we should go for the Dacians. The downside is that I think The Dacian UU gets a big bonus against heavy units like the Kambsor?

The builder in me (if compelled to fight) would want to throw the kitchen sink at the Dacians so we can control the Stone resource near their capitol and also give us the opportunity to put a city down at the Amber/Beaver sweet spot that I think lies north on the Danube. I have this unnatural attraction to happy resources!

The builder in me also wants to hook up all our goodies and put up cities at "A" and "C" before war.

 

[Shqype]

That's a good reason NOT to hit Dacia just yet. I say we destroy the Romans and build a better, enduring Rome. It doesn't make sense to me to make peace with them (Caesar will still be annoyed anyway and just might declare war regardless) so we can attack the Germans only to have to declare war on the Romans in the future. If we can take them out now, then let's do it!

 

[Jet]

The Kambsor, even though it replaces the Spearman and upgrades to the Armored Spearman, is a Medium unit, not countered by Javelineers or Skirmishers. It has no counter until Chariots. Heh, heh, heh.

 

[Hypnotoad]

That's also why the Kambsor gets the Raider bonus -- that works for all medium units.

 

[Jet]

I agree that SrWilliam's last turn put us in good shape economically, thumbs up.

 

[Dux_]

I'll play my turn at night & post it.

 

[Shqype]

We're waiting

 

[Dux_]

Turn 1 (2140 BC) Not much to say, Animal Husbandry is due in 4 turns.

Turn 3 Smithy done. I decided to go for an invasion of rome, gonna build up our forces. Training Kambsor on Skondra.

Turn 5 Started on Boat Building, due in 6 turns.

Turn 6 Gonna do something risky, Kummishuk has appeared near fish & pig, on a decent location, gonna try to grab it. Moves Kambsor out of Skondra. Btw, Dyrrahu is building a Settler. Unit upkeep keeps us at -3. We need Council of Elders soonish.

Turn 9 Lost a warrior trying to kill a warrior with 50% odds. Gonna wait for Kambsor to get there.

Turn 10 Boat Building Here, Research on nature cult.

Turn 11 Building Kambsor & then Galley.

Turn 14 Nature Cult here.



Those are the good news & the bad news. Good news is the barbs built two cities for us, the bad news is one of the cities is not exactly on the planned spot. It's good nonetheless, IMO. Lumbermill should be hooked soon on the capital, after galley I suggest we build a holy site so it can grow, & we hook up cows. The Settler in Dyrrahu should go to spot C. Btw, we're waiting for the barb cities to grow to size 2 so we can capture them.

I think that besides losing a warrior in a rather silly way, it's been a decent set of turns. Jet, you're up.

 

[Shqype]

Turn 1 (2140 BC) Not much to say, Animal Husbandry is due in 4 turns.

Turn 3 Smithy done. I decided to go for an invasion of rome, gonna build up our forces. Training Kambsor on Skondra.

Turn 5 Started on Boat Building, due in 6 turns.

Turn 6 Gonna do something risky, Kummishuk has appeared near fish & pig, on a decent location, gonna try to grab it. Moves Kambsor out of Skondra. Btw, Dyrrahu is building a Settler. Unit upkeep keeps us at -3. We need Council of Elders soonish.

Turn 9 Lost a warrior trying to kill a warrior with 50% odds. Gonna wait for Kambsor to get there.

Turn 10 Boat Building Here, Research on nature cult.

Turn 11 Building Kambsor & then Galley.

Turn 14 Nature Cult here.



Those are the good news & the bad news. Good news is the barbs built two cities for us, the bad news is one of the cities is not exactly on the planned spot. It's good nonetheless, IMO. Lumbermill should be hooked soon on the capital, after galley I suggest we build a holy site so it can grow, & we hook up cows. The Settler in Dyrrahu should go to spot C. Btw, we're waiting for the barb cities to grow to size 2 so we can capture them.

I think that besides losing a warrior in a rather silly way, it's been a decent set of turns. Jet, you're up.

Good turn Dux, but it's Skodra, there's no "n," not even in Shkodra!

 

[Jet]

Turns 1-5:

• Dacia settles site B.
• Skodra finishes galley; I give it Sentry. Usually I'd give it the movement promotion, but the Adriatic is small, and the recon will help. I load on 2 kambsors and the combat I warrior and send them over.
• Tribal Law finishes. I adopt Council of Elders and start Masonry.

Turns 5-10:

• I chop a forest near Dyrrahu, intending to hurry its settler but actually hurrying the subsequent Kambsor.
• Sentry galley reveals the capital of our nemesis. The Alt key says that the odds of a Kambsor against Rome is 96.9%. Nice. But I go south first.
• Raiding party unloads and finds Cumae on a hill on the other side of a river. Kills a Javelineer defending a horse pasture, intending to circle around the south of Cumae, but is blocked by the coast and circles back around north.
• Kummukhu grows to size 2 and is persuaded by a Kambsor to join the Illyrian empire.
• Albanopoli settled on site C.
• Lissus finishes its Holy Site and starts a Lembi. The Lissus olives get a grove.
• 2 of 4 barb warriors leave Hyksos, the barb city at site A, and move towards Byzantium (exploring?) then reappear in Hyskos; I think they just moved back but it's possible that two new ones were built.

Turns 11-15:

• We meet Phoenicia.
• Scouting galley reveals Sicily to be unsettled.
• Pyrrhus of Epirus is adopted in Skodra and sent to prove himself by leading the invasion of Italy.
• Raiding party sets up camp in the woods outside Cumae. At 72% odds (what happened to my %$#@ 96.9%?) the uninjured Kambsor raids Cumae in a frenzy of warrior spirit, but fortune does not favor the bold.
• Dyrrahu accidentally grows past its happy limit while building a Holy Site.
• Dido urgently requests mighty Illyria's assistance in their crusade against the Tartessian! Mighty Illyria? Well, if you put it that way... I agree in order to cultivate trade relations later. May both our peoples profit from our continued friendship.

Finish:

• 6 turns to Masonry.
• I notice to my chagrin that Skodra has not been running an engineer. Dddddddd'oh! I hired one in the save, anyway.
• 1 warrior and 1 Kambsor are camped outside Cumae, with Pyrrhus and another Kambsor just off the coast.
• There are a lot of troops in the nearby Dacian cities. I fear we'll have to keep more of our Kambsors home for defense.
• Albanopoli is stagnant while building its tavern. I left it that way, and I often go stagnant in order to build a work boat ASAP, but I think it was a mistake in this case. It would have been better to work the fish and get the 2 commerce right away, or maybe go stagnant to build a work boat instead of a tavern. In Albanopoli's case it's not like there's any big rush to pop its borders.

It's interesting. We have competing priorities.

• We don't have enough Kambsors to defend ourselves or take Cumae.
• We probably don't have enough workers.
• We have a barb city in our backyard.
• We're finishing Masonry in 6 turns. Personally I'm pretty sure I'd trade every other wonder for just the Sphinx, Lighthouse, and Colossus, but I don't know. And I think our expansion is going to delay when we get Bronze Working.
• Seeing Southern Italy, I'd be inclined to keep Cumae, since it's so well positioned.
• Should we grab the clam/crab spot in Sicily before Carthage does? We can't afford it, and it misses the olives and fish, but it provides a bridge that will save a turn or two when ferrying troops to the West. And if we want to trade with Carthage we can't go razing their colonies.

 

[SrWilliam]

The Barbs and the Dacians were nice enough to put up two ideally located cities for us.

What do you guys think about keeping Roman cities?

My gut says we should burn most of them to the ground as it may be too early for the long range maintenance but Cumea is closer to our capitol than an number of our cities.

At this point in the game the only far away city I would keep would have a new happy resource or new strategic resource.

 

[Hypnotoad]

One empire that is little remembered in history books is what was known as the "Roman Empire." This is the story of their demise.

A new leader was put in control of the Illirian Empire. He immediately decided to focus on infrastructure:

The worker near Albanopoli is removed from the olive grove and starts building a road towards the capital so we can have a great north-south highway. Switch to making a worker in Lissus -- our naval defence will come afterwards.

Meanwhile, the second wave of Kambsors land near Cumae. I realize we can't take it in one turn. I make one crucial attack with a Kambsor at 78% odds against a 2-star Javalineer. I win. This lets my Kambsor get city-attack 3 and makes all of his remaining Javalineers 1-star. The next turn I do the same thing with a brand new Kambsor at 72% odds. He gets City-attack 2. It's now over -- I've weakened him and strengthened myself. I take Cumae on the 6th turn or so without a single loss, gaining a worker.

Meanwhile, back on the home front, we finish Masonry and start on mining (to get Sappers, wells as well as access to Copper). I start making the capital and our southern city (Lissus) into wonder-producing centers. By the end, the capital has a holy site, one greater population and a carpenter. Lissus has a lighthouse, a carpenter and is working on the great lighthouse.

I sent the Kambsor built in the capital to Italy. I built a second Kambsor in Dyrrahu and have kept it for defense.

So, having taken Cumae, I heal, leave a Kambsor and a warrior in Cumae and then bring our fearless leader and two Kambsors up to Rome. I find just two javalineers, three archers and a couple of warriors. I think: I can take this. One Kambsor has city attack three, the other city attack 2 (our leader is a heavy unit, so has trouble when there are Javalineers).

Then a brilliant thing happens: Rome decides to send out a surprise attack by ship on Cumae of one Javalineer and one warrior, taking these from Rome.

I take Rome over the next three turns. Cumae loses its horse pasture and a bit of population, but is basically okay. Here's the picture of our hero killing the final archer:

I keep Rome. It just has a great location. We can burn others.

Meanwhile, I finish completing our north south highway, which is an amazingly good thing for health. Crabs and clams and olives from the south; wheat from the north (the southern wheat wasn't connected by road) and soon cattle and sheep for everyone.

So that's how I leave things. Rome has just been captured. I haven't really started building anything in the capital. Right now I have it on the Illyrian Citidell. Here's why: after 33 turns we should have a great Engineer, yet it would take 50 to make the Sphinx. So I thought we could Make the Citadel and the Sphinx both in the capital, thus making an Engineer-breeding ground. I have just started on the Great Lighthouse down south. I just started researching Exploration (so we can get Open borders and extra trade routes). Perhaps that should be writing, instead. I have a Kambsor just outside the Gold barbarian city.

Whew.

 

[Jet]

Good turnset, HT. Why not Bronze Working? You aren't paranoid about the Colossus?

 

[Hypnotoad]

I guess I don't consider Colossus as high priority as other people do. Sea squares just never generate as much commerce as grassland/cottages, so I rarely am trying to get commerce from them (although it is a nice boost, of course).

Also, I think we have enough wonders on our hands right now. I felt like we needed some boost to our economy, which an open border agreement (with trade) would definitely provide. Also, this way if we get the Great Lighthouse, we will have an open border agreement to use it with. Right now only one of our cities isn't costal.

My inclination would be to not build on Sicily and rather try to have an open border agreement with Dido. Of course, that can be tricky -- she is a bit isolationist.

Also, Shqype: one of the cities needs to have its artist turned back into a worker, now that it's borders are expanded.

Bronze working also is over 30 turns of research. I think we should have libraries and/or foreign trade first.

PS: If people really want the Colossus and someone else builds it, we will just have to take it from them.
PPS: With exploration we can trade goods between Italy and the Balkans -- Wine from Italy, wheat from the Balkans..

 

[Jet]

Mmm. On this map there's a lot of cottagable grassland, and we're not Financial, and we don't have a big need for the new military units.

 

[SrWilliam]

Good job Hypnotoad.

Lots of guns and a side order of butter.

 

[Shqype]

Turn 1:
Replaced artist from Albanopoli with citizen
Set worker to build route on Timber near Dyrrahu
Attacked barb city of Hyskos with Kambsor (3 barbs left)
Kambsor destroyed Javelineer near Cumae, hooked him up with City Raider 3

Turn 2:
Dyrrahu completed Carpenter, began production of Granary (to increase growth rate and counteract health penalty from Carpenter)
Attacked barb city of Hyskos with Kambsor (2 barbs left), hooked him up with City Raider 2

Turn 3:
Lissus built Carpenter, started on the Great Lighthouse
Julius Caesar asked for a peace treaty; I gave it to him. I figure 10 turns to build up Illyria and heal our army before advancing. Plus, he had a transport galley enroute to an undefended worker near Albanopoli
Scythian city built between Hyskos and Kummukhu, taking the gold
Set worker near Lissus build a road to link up Clay
Had Pirro i Epirit destroy Tartessian Tribal Warrior near Rome

Turn 4:
Hyskos captured by Kambsor and fortified by a Tribal Warrior; 65 gold added to the treasury

Turn 5:
Nothing

Turn 6:
Nothing

Turn 7:
Worker connected Sheep to Albanopoli, which now takes advantage of them; growth in 9 turns
Hyskos built Tavern
Dyrrahu built Granary, production changed to Kambsor

Turn 8:
Lissus worker to build a Copper mine

Turn 9:
Reduced research rate to 50%, loss of 2 gold per turn
Had Skodra work the Harbor plot instead of the forest plot below Timber to help gain more commerce
Had Dyrrahu work a commerce plot instead of a production plot to the left of the city for more commerce. Growth in 6 turns now instead of 8.
Had Lissus work a sea plot with clams instead of the southernmost sheep plot; now +2 commerce and growth in 3 turns instead of 9
Had Albanopoli work a production plot instead of the main city plot; Workboat complete in 2 turns instead of 3

Turn 10:
Nothing

Turn 11:
Peace treaty with Julius Caesar is over!
Tavern constructed in Kummukhu, Lighthouse next
Workboat constructed in Albanopoli, Granary next
Workboat consumed to work Albanopoli fish
Fish plot is now worked instead of production plot at Albanopoli, +2 commerce and growth in 4 turns
Research rate increased to 60%, loss of 4 gold per turn; Exploration in 5 turns

Turn 12:
Worker moved next to Dyrrahu to finish last stretch of route to Timber

Turn 13:
Kambsor trained in Dyrrahu and fortified. Smithy next.
More experienced Kambsor with City Attack 2 is sent from Dyrrahu to Skodra; enroute.
Two workers begin to build Copper mine between Skodra and Dyrrahu

Turn 14:
Cumae grew to size 2

Turn 15:
Albanopoli grew to size 2
Research rate reduced to 40%, allowing for a profit of 3 gold; still 1 turn to Exploration

State of the Illyrian Union:



The Illyrian Empire is currently at peace with all of its neighbors save the Tartessians. There has been no sign of further threat from the Romans, although the peace is uneasy. Dacia seems to pose the biggest threat to the security of Illyria with Peltasts not far from the Daco-Illyrian border. Exploration will be researched next turn and the Kala (Illyrian Citadel) will be built in Skodra in under 7 turns. Hopefully the secrets of Exploration will allow for a better economy to enable Illyria to further expand its borders.

EDIT: I guess I must have played a little more than 15 turns ... I notice that the biggest indication of this is the peace treaty with the Romans, and then it expiring less than 10 turns later. The peace may have been signed a turn before I stated it above, but that still leaves a turn or two of "nothings" that I didn't keep track of. Oh well.

EDIT 2: Sometime during my turn, Dyrrahu and Lissus grew to size 7.

 

[Jet]

Looking good. Expenses are certainly rearing their head! Well, the peace treaty with Rome was a good call, but I don't think the Romans have fully grasped the nuances of Illyrian revenge just yet. According to the scenario rules we have to declare war on Rome at least once, and it might be best to hit them while they're down and don't have a defense against Kambsors. We could go in pillaging, and try to raze cities if they're weakly defended enough. I think it could be done with Pyrrhus and one or two Kambsors.

At our current population we can support 2 more units, and even if we prefer to continue paying zero unit maintenance, we can disband warriors as Kambsors get built. Even a Kambsor that garrisons an inner city increases our power rating and decreases our chance of being invaded at an inconvenient time. I think I'd put the smithy in Dyrrahu on hold and loop Kambsors instead. Also without fresh water or a harbor I think Dyrrahu might be health-challenged later, and the smithy in Skodra is fairly close by. The sapper would also be good: if I'm not mistaken it can be used as an impregnable tile defender as well as for scouting and bombardment, which may be cheese, but using exploits in this game can help show where the mod may need adjustment.

Since we have clay we should take a shot at the Tower of Babel. Even if we don't get it, the hammers we spend will get converted into gold at a 1:2 ratio because of the clay bonus. That's a good investment! Try it in Skodra?

Since we're about to get 8 commerce per turn from Exploration I think we can afford to move some citizens onto production tiles. Skodra and Lissus can certainly afford to starve down while building wonders, although it would have to be managed carefully, especially in Lissus because it doesn't have a granary. Also if we mine over the Lissus forest hills now, the Lighthouse will get both the chop and the mine production.