SGOTM 08 - Gypsy Kings

AJ is right about Bodica and she is could be a worst enemy of someone we will want to please. So IMO we must hold on our gifts for now. We are not so in hurry for feo and we could trade it from Joao soon, right? Who is not worst enemy to nobody for sure.

I also agree about building universities with high priority.
 
It should display "worst enemy off X" if they are so when we meet someone, be cautionous about gifting to such people(especially if they are low in score and/or backwards.
Will this message show if we haven't met X yet? If it does, no big deal trading or at least opening borders - although this will only matter after we get Astro for the trade routes.

p.s. still not able to open the save, will probably do it tomorrow.
 
I think that it should show altough it isn't supposed to show -- a bug. At least it was in the 3.17 patch.. maybe HoF 3.17 fixed it or so.

I'll be away until ~27th, by then I should be able to play civ again FINALLY!

Merry Christmas to you all :)
 
I will look for the 2 highest hammer cities that can currently build Universities and build them ASAP.
 
I played 1 more whole turn...more to come later...

I stopped because I met Periclese...gifted him the 10g to get to pleased...he will trade both Feud and Engineering right now.

I switched the builds to Universities where needed.
 
Why did you gift 10 gold and not some backwards tech?
 
I finally got to open the save - Diplo screen says Boudica is at war with Charlemagne, being his (and Gandhi's) worst enemy! So I believe it is safe to trade with Pericles now.

EDIT: Suggestions for tech trading:
Joao: CS+Lit for Feu/WM/50g
Pericles: CS+Mus for Eng/WM/40g
 
I cannot play more before next year....
 
EDIT: Suggestions for tech trading:
Joao: CS+Lit for Feu/WM/50g
Pericles: CS+Mus for Eng/WM/40g

This trades are not good because our main problem is to keep AIs away from Liberalism.

IMO currently we can trade with Pericle Eng+40g for Music & Optics. Optics is not on the way to Lib and doesn't lead to military techs while CS humm.
CS is tech which i avid to trade because it is economy and military tech in same time with high price for it time. CS will not only boost AI's captol + chain irr but will give mace to Pericle and Bodica. I definetly wont trade CS as long as possible.

Also University before Forge in kwaDukuza is bad aproach there.
 
I'd like to contribute to the discussion (especially as there is so little over christmas) but I'm not able to run civ. Could someone please upload a package of screenshot of our situation? I'll try to post some toughts then but can't otherwise as I know very little about how we're doing...

Who is playing? Ronnie? (who can't play before next year :p)
 
The Roster order is...

munro - waiting
mystyfly - skipped....
Rusten - skipped....
Conquistador63 - skipped....
adrianj - just played
hellwitch - waiting
oyzar - skipped....
Ronnie1 - just played
da_Vinci - UP NOW

One of the skipped players is on deck...another is in the hole....the rotation is totally screwed up, so please post your availability to play!
 
Hmm, is this the third inning already? I thought I had mentioned needing a skip for the second inning, but maybe you thought I meant move to the end.

Sadly, things are going worse for my dad, to a large degree from the incompetence of this so called "skilled" nursing facility ... tomorrow we take him home for hospice care, and the hospice team is SOO much smarter than the staff at the nursing facility, I can only hope it gets better.

So I have no time to digest all of your thoughts and ideas, much less develop a PPP ...

So I am unable to play at this time ... sorry!

dV
 
Maybe i'll be able to play from bulgaria after all.. I'll dl the save and have a look now...

I took a bunch of screenshots of our cities and land. We've met pericles and boudica it seems. We got plenty of techs on them so trading for feud and engineering isn't particulary hard(if we are aiming to lib for something past sci meth, like communism trading for engineering is not a bad idea, going for astronomy early might not be a good idea due to our colossus fueled economy). If we are aiming to get into state property sooner rather than later, why the heck are we building all these courthouses? There are insanely a lot of issues with most of the cities so i guess i'll take it one by one.

In general it looks like we have severe happiness problems, how to solve this? We can at least get whales right?

Yasodharapura: We aim to put oxford in here right? What other national wonder? Why is it working an engineer over a cottage? it can still grow one more pop without health problems... Is chichen itza really the best build after university?

Hariharalaya: Do we really need another great prophet? Probably, what is the city building after the worker? A barray?

Angkor thom: Why is it stealing one of the capital's hamlets? do we really need a university here? isn't it better to finish the barray first at least? Also it should get a ligthouse shortly...

Angkor wat: City is unhealthy so i assume it'll finish university then start on harbor before moving onto barray? Why is it working a priest specialists over a coastal tile? Harbor is damn cheap(maybe worth building it before university?), so growing is no problem, oh and we need more innland improvements here, cottages or farms?

uMgungundlov: Courshouse queed up after university? Surely a harbor is better here again(as is a barray?), also need more improvements innland, i assume farms, though cottages could also work... Since we are this far on the university we should finish it, but would have been better to build harbor first. Also working the merchant is certainly not ideal at this point(want more farms to grow faster first?).

Nobamba: Again the courthouse obsession(we are going for state property right??), at least this city do have a harbor though. It also needs more improvements, again farms or cottages?

New island city: Why is it building a market? Wouldn't a harbor be better? And certainly not a confuncian temple? why the heck is it working a normal plains tile over a coastal tile?

Ulundi: Building more courthouses(although saving 7 gpt isn't bad :p), also for some reason the city is working 4 mines and a plains farm over more specialists/grassland farms, why?

Bulawayo: Shouldn't it be working the mine over the farm to not grow into unhappiness?

kwaDukuza: Aren't the coastal tiles better than plains cottages with this low food? Also university is gonna take a long time, is this really the best place for it?

Stone town: It is unhappy, why? Whip the forge maybe? Working a 3 hammer tile and an unhappy citizen is not particulary good... We aren't actually aiming for it to make any GP's right? What to build here after the forge? Need an archer here, what to build afterwards?

Nagara Jayasri: Ouch, whip the lighthouse 10 turns ago... really bad... need an archer here(it can produce it itself with overflow), what to build afterwards?

Rajavihara: work the floodplain cottage maybe? Harbor doesn't do much without foreign traderoutes... We do need more workers, i guess it can build a worker afterwards...

Harappan: Why work the unmined grass hill? Build an archer then a ligthouse here?

Isvarapura: Working a grassland tile is better than working the fur? Is forge really the best choice here? Doesn't it need a ligthouse?(though i could see whipping a worker at size 6)

Banteay Kdei: Work the floodplain? Also if we plan communism is really courthouse the best to build? Need a workboat here no?

Jayendranagari: Why build an harbor without foreign traderoutes? Need an archer here first, at least, but whipping a worker at size 3 is not a bad idea...

Tech trading: optics, music, or even compass should be plenty to trade for what we want from the AI...

What is the plan for all these confuncian missionaries in the caravels? Why the heck have we not explored joao's lands(or at least traded for his map)? I thought we plnanned to take him out sooner rather than later?
 

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First off, thank you for the pictures. I can only comment on city mm and not on long-tern plan tough.

I generally agree with stopping that courthouse - addiction.

Yasodharapura: We aim to put oxford in here right? What other national wonder? Why is it working an engineer over a cottage? it can still grow one more pop without health problems... Is chichen itza really the best build after university?
I don't find chichen itza a really bad build (tough I don't see what "normal" buildings yaso misses) as it needs something in-between before starting ox (which it should ASAP). As for the second NW, I'd say IW as it really has good production and we can use a strong production city for later wonders.
I agree with switching to all possible cottages here.

Hariharalaya: Do we really need another great prophet? Probably, what is the city building after the worker? A barray?
I was wondering too what the priest is supposed to be doing here... I don't see how hari could ever produce a GP... Switch to scientists I say. The only possible reason I see here is to get some hammers... Those 2 priests make 3 hammers and 2 gold (exp bonus) while working two ocean tiles would make 4 "hammers" and 4 commerce...
Not sure about Baray... This city will only grow slowly as long as we have the 2 specs assigned.. If we worked two (soon to be constructed) grassland cottages it'd have 6 food surplus.. then we'd need a baray, otherwise leave it.

Angkor thom: Why is it stealing one of the capital's hamlets? do we really need a university here? isn't it better to finish the barray first at least? Also it should get a ligthouse shortly...
I'd also finish the baray first, then, cottage those grasslands asap to allow further growth.. and yes, the capital has more food availabe than this city to work a 1F - tile.

Angkor wat: City is unhealthy so i assume it'll finish university then start on harbor before moving onto barray? Why is it working a priest specialists over a coastal tile? Harbor is damn cheap(maybe worth building it before university?), so growing is no problem, oh and we need more innland improvements here, cottages or farms?
I'd either switch in a harbour or whip a baray before finishing the uni. And switch that priest to the coastal tile... is it the AI or some human who is obsessed with priests?
Improvement? Cottages OFC. Farms will not add much food surplus (so not many specs) and the city is on the edge of becoming :mad: anyway so one less reason for farms..

uMgungundlov: Courshouse queed up after university? Surely a harbor is better here again(as is a barray?), also need more improvements innland, i assume farms, though cottages could also work... Since we are this far on the university we should finish it, but would have been better to build harbor first. Also working the merchant is certainly not ideal at this point(want more farms to grow faster first?).
We are at happy cap with lots of food. Why isn't this city getting :whipped: more? Probabely 2pop-whip the baray/harbor and get the overflow into uni (or vice versa). Also here, I'd cottage those grasslands up. I don't see the point in farms.

Nobamba: Again the courthouse obsession(we are going for state property right??), at least this city do have a harbor though. It also needs more improvements, again farms or cottages?
Farms here, clearly. Are there hammers put into the court? Probabely getting out a few maces/trebs or spies would be a good idea...

New island city: Why is it building a market? Wouldn't a harbor be better? And certainly not a confuncian temple? why the heck is it working a normal plains tile over a coastal tile?
Agree here. Plains will be to get some hammers. Why not get them by whipping??

Ulundi: Building more courthouses(although saving 7 gpt isn't bad ), also for some reason the city is working 4 mines and a plains farm over more specialists/grassland farms, why?
For the GP potential it has, the city is quite bad imo. Assign max specs and build buildings tha allow more specs...

Bulawayo: Shouldn't it be working the mine over the farm to not grow into unhappiness?
... Or whip the court...

kwaDukuza: Aren't the coastal tiles better than plains cottages with this low food? Also university is gonna take a long time, is this really the best place for it?
I'd cancel that ridiculous university... That city needs more :) so whip a market or forge.

Stone town: It is unhappy, why? Whip the forge maybe? Working a 3 hammer tile and an unhappy citizen is not particulary good... We aren't actually aiming for it to make any GP's right? What to build here after the forge? Need an archer here, what to build afterwards?
I assume because of 1-pop whips (3 to be precise)... Are we able to 3pop whip anything with overflow into forge? should solve this issue...

Nagara Jayasri: Ouch, whip the lighthouse 10 turns ago... really bad... need an archer here(it can produce it itself with overflow), what to build afterwards?
Agree...
Next should be harbour > worker (whip probabely, keep an eye on the happy cap...)

Rajavihara: work the floodplain cottage maybe? Harbor doesn't do much without foreign traderoutes... We do need more workers, i guess it can build a worker afterwards...
Agree. Any chance to irrigate that grassland?

Harappan: Why work the unmined grass hill? Build an archer then a ligthouse here?
Why archer? I doubt we'll ned axes in the next war(s) unless decently promoted. We'll surely have some units to spare for :)-Police.
Both the library and the hill are mysteries to me... Lighthouse > :)-Building.

Isvarapura: Working a grassland tile is better than working the fur? Is forge really the best choice here? Doesn't it need a ligthouse?(though i could see whipping a worker at size 6)
I'd also work the fur. Whipping a worker sounds good. Will get decent overflow (unless we whip it without any hammers invested). Not sure about lighthouse..

Banteay Kdei: Work the floodplain? Also if we plan communism is really courthouse the best to build? Need a workboat here no?
Lol. What's that supposed to be. Clearly work the floodplain and get a WB out (somewhere). Why the library?
Get the lighthouse built and cottages up.

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We can get anything we want from the AI. Shoot for Notre Dame (if available)? We have rather serious :)-issues in nearly every city.

I agree with turning on joao soonish. We seem to have quite some EPs against him. I'd build some spies to lower city defences and try to take him out with knights (fast and painless) while (probabely) building up a treb/cannon + mace/rifle army for Boudica or Pericles. How many more AIs are out there?

Also, eventually reassign EP-spending away from joao (so we see the other's graphs) if we have enought to lower some defences...

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So are you planning to play in the next few days oyzar? I doubt anyone would mind :p
 
I'm away from the game and I won't comment on tile/city MM - I trust oyzar enough to leave it to him. But the decision re. courthouses depends on the civics we plan to run, and this in turn depends on the VC we'll pursue.

I've mentioned this issue a few times but it doesn't look like a popular question for discussion. I know some of you said Domination, yet I wonder if Diplo would offer a faster finish for the same wonder count. We have a reasonable research rate, we have enough GPP rates to help lightbulbing, we have a GE for UN, we already have at least one friendly AI to vote for us. Maybe conquer just one or two AI's (the ones who have more wonders built)... Mass Media beeline offers a lot of modern wonders...

Also, where did we decide on using SP? Last comment re. economic civic was towards FM (better trade route income, better for corporations). If we intend to effectively use these, courthouses are the way to go.

p.s. Notre Dame is good for one continent only (and pretty expensive for it), and I'm pretty sure that there should be plenty of happy resources to trade from the AI when we get Astro.

All above could be completely wrong, I just couldn't find these questions discussed anywhere in the thread.
 
About the courthouses...if we run State Property, we CAN NOT found Corporations, so there will need to be at least enough turns NOT running SP to found the corps...I suppose we could try to found them all at the end....but I fear the AI's will found the early ones and then we will need to capture those as well.

dV has asked to be taken out of the rotation until further notice...

The Roster order is...

munro - waiting
mystyfly - skipped....
Rusten - skipped....
Conquistador63 - skipped....
adrianj - waiting
hellwitch - waiting
oyzar - UP NOW
Ronnie1 - just played

da_Vinci - in reserve until further notice

Everyone one else please post availability to play!
 
Well, I doubt we can get anything near as many wonders by shooting for diplo unless we conquer most civs, which is faster if we don't tech up to MM.

With a large empire, SP is clearly better for corportations. I would switch into SP asap and probabely use a GP for a GA, to switch into fm or whatever we want to found the corps and finish the last handful of wonders...

Good point about notre dame, I'd forgotten.. But still, if we build it in yaso it might be worth it... it gives more GPP... when we get some wonders in yaso we may have 2 decent GPfarms (yaso, from wonders and ulundi, from specs).
 
It could help if we set a long term plan of which techs/wonders we should aim for. Mass Media itself is a cheap tech which opens 3 wonders: UN, Hollywood and Jewelers Corp. Its prereq Radio opens another 3: Eiffel, R'n'Roll, Cristo Redentor. Electricity opens Broadway. Are we planning on passing these up?

On conquering wonders: quick count shows we've already missed 12 of them: 1 AI city has 5, another one has 3 (founded later, so maybe from same civ?). Maybe conquering just these would be enough?
 
Well, winning after MM and domination don't exclude eachother. Even if we want to delay victory till then I find it better if we get domination as we can time it better. With diplo, we'll have to wait some turns until the vote comes up.

Researching till MM might be better than finishing early, not only because of the additional wonders we can build but also because we'll have more GPs.

I think we should decide when we have a good picture of our world, with all civs met, maps traded and tech overview.
 
Next turnset should be very informative. A simple map trade this turn could give away a lot of info. Anyways, from the diplo and victory screens we can affirm or deduce that the unknown leaders are Augustus (hindu pope, probably Pericles' friend), Gandhi and Charlemagne (probably buddhist friends to whom Boudica is worst enemy).
 
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