SGOTM 08 - The Real Ms. Beyond

[Jabah]

The save will be online tonight.

Now, we obviously don't want to start a session ASAP as we are still waiting for everyone to 'check in', but we might start our T0:

I suppose we want to settler where the settler is, but just to be sure we should move the scout probably NW-SW so we know exactly what is in the BFC (they all look like forrests to me, but could have a deer/fur inside.
Should we do that (and settle I guess, but not ending the turn), before brainstorming all our possibilities....

 

[Kodii]

Agreed with the scout.

In terms of strategy, the fastest victories have often been diplomatic, but I am not exactly the most experienced with AP, but if you (Jabah) have enough confidence that you can lead us through the steps needed to achieve it, then by all means, lets go for it.

I still think that a domination/conquest victory will maximize wonders per turns played. If anything, following the ancient era, we can produce units instead of wonders and simply capture them from the AIs.

 

[TheArchduke]

On victory condition, I voice the concerns over a AP victory, I think a solid late game victory with all the wonders would be better, but it is my inexperience with the AP victory talking here. I just don´t like to depend on so many factors (get a religion setup, get the AP, etc..)

Also on the starting position. Well the easy stuff first, do we want to scout north or south. I am kinda hard pressed to see a better starting city (cows, gold, fish and clams? Yummie..)

Who is missing with his checkin on our list?

 

[Kodii]

Roster (in alphabetical order):

chmoosi (checked in - RB)
gOng_civ' (checked in)
Jabah (checked in - RB)
Kodii (checked in - RB)
orb (checked in)
Storm666
TheArchduke (checked in - RB)
timmy827 (checked in - RB)

This explains my concern about not having a complete RB roster, since only one of the additional members has signed in (orb). Unfortunately, in the early stages already, it may prove that the other two are unreliable.

chmoosi has yet to sign in as well, but from my experience with him in the previous SGOTM, he may have a few disappearances, but is a highly reliable and experienced player. Let's hope that hasn't changed.

 

[Kodii]

The only "trick" with the starting position that may be applicable is whether or not we are on a peninsula that can access the marble island even if we settle our capital on the northern shore. If anything, we can later found a city on the southern shore, but that may delay the marble, especially if we plan to grab it right away.

 

[timmy827]

I think my allotment is correct - the 2 at CoL are Chichen Itza and Forbidden Palace (the latter doesn't appear anywhere on the tech tree, so it looks wrong at a quick glance). Unless I'm forgetting something, only Sistine is at Music.

The scout & settle plan sounds fine to me.

Late game also sounds good. Since we will be conquering to get the wonders/shrines we missed, what might work well is a vassal-powered UN victory. Since the wonder density is really high on the MM beeline, we could exit before landing the last few if that would raise our per-turn score.

 

[chmoosi]

Hullo all.

Nice to see the discussion already going. I find the idea of critical early wonders and then conquesting the rest a good one. I also agree on the priority (GLH, Oracle (for metal casting), Colossus, Glib). Also parthenon should be considered as at that point we most likely have marble. If there is stone nearby that of course gives us the possibility of building even more.. and scout and settle yes, I can't really see any other places for the city.

 

[orb]

Guys.

I realise I'm the new guy on the team, and you folks obviously know each other from previous games, so I thought I should introduce myself further.

I've been playing Civ for 12 years now through all the versions. - Been addicted to the game for 11 years, 9 months now. (Took me a while just to understand why granaries and temples made a difference to the game mechanism)

In Civ 4 I typically play Prince level when I'm not playing XOTM games. I'm currently populating my own hall of fame for all Victory types with the Celts. - I've never submitted to the civfanatics HOF - And I would consider my natural style as a builder usually playing for a Culture win.

I've checked out the Realms Beyond from Kodii's link in this thread. -Which I had never heard of before!!!...Looks great. I can see I'll be having a few late nights to catch up on all the stuff in there. (Like a junky getting a new fix.)


BTW - I'm on this site every day if work or family stuff doesn't take me away and I usually play late evenings UK time (10pm onwards). - I should be able to complete my turns within a night or two.

As for this game.....My thoughts in no particular order.

....If we want an early win then we have to go the religious route to get the additional shrines to boost points/turn to max the scoring system....but to get the religions we have to tech that way immediately. If we tech fishing/sailing for GLH then we will miss the early religions and have to pick them up by WAR....Suryavarman and Map type doesn't lend themselves to early win. (Unless we are really lucky)

If we want to go for late(ish) win then I agree GLH first....I suspect this will ultimately be more profitable.

Feel free to shoot me down if you disagree.

 

[TheArchduke]

Hi chmoosi, good you signed in as well.

Hi orb, nice to see a new face in any case. Have no fear, I myself am a rather new addition to Realms Beyond community.

Seems like we have two more votes for only snatching critical early wonders and then going for a conquest spree, so I am tempted to agree with this assumption.

Storm666, gong_civ, you guys are still around?

 

[Jabah]

I am not specially trying to convince anyone that AP victory is the way to go (I initially didn't think it will be fast enough since i couldn't see us building all the previous wonders), but I think we should try to build the AP anyway to avoid any 'unwanted' diplomatic disasters, and if we have the opportunity we could also try the victory.

Regarding the marble.
If it is on a small island (which seems to be 99% sure), the only ways to have it online will be a city in this island our a fort (mathematics required afair which is quite late).
If we have the GLH, a city there will more than pay for itself. It would also have some food (at least the initial fish) and it could a very good candidat for Maoi Statues.
--> I am quite happy to settle a city S of marble early.

 

[Jabah]

I think my allotment is correct - the 2 at CoL are Chichen Itza and Forbidden Palace (the latter doesn't appear anywhere on the tech tree, so it looks wrong at a quick glance). Unless I'm forgetting something, only Sistine is at Music.

My bad, I thought Notre Dame was at Music (from the picture, but these are regular cathedrals) and I had forgotten Forbidden Palace.

 

[Kodii]

I have sent a PM to both gOng_civ' and Storm666, so hopefully they will sign in soon enough. If not, I will ask to have them replaced.

 

[gOng_civ']

Hi! Where I had to signed in...? =) I'm little confess with this environment, as you can see, I have been in this forum only little time... Little about my playinghistory; I have played Civ's about 4 years...

 

[gOng_civ']

Damn.. I feel now stupid; so I think now I'm already signing in the game posting that last message... However, how about the starting city position; where you suggest that have to build the first city... And how about the gaming style and marble getting on a use... Very great thanks if somebody can give some advice about the hole SGOTM mainlines and playing for this kind of mod... PS. I already be sorry 'bout my "not so correct" -english.. =)

 

[TheArchduke]

Hi going_civ. No problem understanding you, so far.

I updated my first post with a bit of the excellent compromise guidelines from SGOTM 7.

We are still waiting for our last member to sign in. Then I will try to summarise our short/longterm goals.

 

[TheArchduke]

Ok, we can assume now that we have one member missing? Should we bugger AlanH for replacement?

In either case, we should get this game started. I assume we try for a late win with all the wonders if possible. That means we play a fairly straightforward game, no?

 

[Jabah]

Before each turn set, I think we should have a 'executive plan' aggreed which includes most actions (buildings, unit moving...) and include stopping point for discussion (for thing like : meeting a new neighbour, new trade available, new city building opportunity, an AI having his hand full, and of course being declared...).

We should also decide how relax we want to play the game, we want to have fun and don't take it like too seriously, but there are a few things that we should check every turn (like trading option, AI in WHEOOH...) that I know for example than I am not doing when playing alone (and having new players, we don't know each other habits).

 

[Jabah]

For the first 'turn set'.
I think we should just move the scout and settle.
Since i can't imagine any reason not to settler in place, and moving the scout NW-SW is useless if we settler in place (because all the tiles would be revealed once settling). Shouldn't we move the scout somewhere else (to start exploring another way).

I think we just should play the T0 (without ending turn) and then decide our tech path and production.

PS - I think our 1st real turnset should be also not too long, because we really need to adjust our plans depending on being either isolated in the 'Small' part of the map or being at the edge of the 'Big' part of the map within AIs contacts.

 

[TheArchduke]

Nods, I think some initial scouting is needed for an intense discussion.

If noone minds, I will make the first turnset, so I will move the scout to the southwestern forest and report back for a quick decision if we settle in place. Time to get moving a bit.

 

[Kodii]

If noone minds, I will make the first turnset, so I will move the scout to the southwestern forest and report back for a quick decision if we settle in place. Time to get moving a bit.

Agreed. Go ahead.