SGOTM 08 - The Real Ms. Beyond

[TheArchduke]

Judging from the Results table, CRC and the unusual suspects have a massive jump in score, probably resulting from taking down Shaka.

I may sound like a broken record, but I think that defeating Shaka early on is MUCH more important then any measly GW, Oracle or any other wonder. We are not gonna have them all without stone/industrial so we might as well take all later.

 

[Jabah]

I agree on no building any other wonder than GLH for now if everyone thinks the Oracle is too risky.
If we want to go after Shaka, then capital should build axe, axe, axe (spear?), before lighthouse, GLH.
the other city should then build exploring units (WB or galley) after its warrior.
The worker should be improving the second city after the chop.
No building worker, we will capture some from Shaka

Should we go and declare with 2axes (bocking Shaka and hopefully getting a worker) or wait to have 4/5 and capture his city without him having time to build defence ?

Who ever is going to play next, (gOng civ' ?), if you have time before playing, it could be good if you can do a 'sort of' executive plan of your turn (kind of what I did, not specially going into MM details except if important, as timmy noticed), so :

0. you/we know what to build/research and (roughly) how long it will take.
1. we can all improve/agree on what to do before you play.
2. you have some guideline to refer when playing (I know I was alt-tabing every turn to check I did forget anything while playing)

As for how long, I suggest you stop (possibly to continue after brainstroming) when you/we are going to declare on Shaka. (axes ready to enter his land or attack a worker/settler).

 

[gOng_civ']

Okay... Yes, I will manage some turnsetprogram before I play, but I think it better if I have some your ideas, thinking about techs and other on the thread ... I will play it tonight, after that I arrive back home from my (evening/adult)high school . (GMT +3 time: about at 9.00 PM)

And what I personally think at the moment about Shaka's rushing; IMO we need at least 3 axes and galley. 'cause I think we could move first one with galley to northern islands to explore and other 2 foray right from the sea to the Shaka's land.
Then the one what explore can be some turns cartograph the northline and then go action like some kind of reserve. Offcourse it could be good check out first if Shaka have already better militarypeople (Swordman) or something else...

But after that thinking I don't know it's that very good idea when the lighthouse and GLH must be build. IS IT TOO LATE if we build all that; axe, galley, axe, axe, lighthouse - before starting build GLH ?!?

What the team think about that way of war...

 

[orb]

any measly GW, Oracle or any other wonder.

If you think the Great Wall is measly then I'm happy to go without it. - Just thought I would raise the debate about espionage as it (can) shape our game later.

Lets cast our dice and attack Shaka...See what fun this game brings.

Good luck gOng_civ' - Cant wait for tonight to read the latest installment.

 

[Jabah]

I would send all axe straight to Shaka, not exploring island. When Shaka is dead (or almost) we could use our vets axe to explore ...
I would not build a galley from the capital before GLH anyway.

@ orb, if we killed Shaka, we will have no one on to spend spy-points. (and we should be able to deal with the barbarians after Shaka).

@gOng civ', while I knwo that we are moving quite slowly and that it is kind of annoying, I am afraid that if you post a 'plan' tonight and want to play soon after, almost no one will have a chance to comment (I am alone at home tonight with my young boy, so I might be quite busy and won't be looking at the forum before quite late).

Part of the problem is that we have not decided of roster (so no one is really into carefull pre-planning as much as it is when you know you will be the one playing) but also maybe because there is a RB epic finishing today (I had no time to play, but maybe some others are busy finishing their game and report)

@gOng civ' : I guess you can have most of the 'plan' taken from the previous discussion, the only change might be research. Since it seems that we decide to forget Oracle, we should finish mysticism, finish sailing (when warrior done in 2nd city, otherwise keep delaying), then masonry. If you have to start another one, I guess IronW will be needed soon and should not be a bad choice.

 

[TheArchduke]

The Great Wall is basically about keeping out the barbarians. For Great People points I think smaller buildings are better. In our situation barbarians will be neglible thanks to our peculiar situation.

 

[Kodii]

Sorry for the absence. Not much time to comment, but Shaka has to go. Thats our first priority.

* is there something odd with the saving and loading in the teamsave that have to notice? (what have to notice when I load/save the game, where the save appear...)

The HOF Mod makes things a little different, but if you have it installed properly, all you should have to do is double-click the save file and it will take you straight to the game.

*how many turns I can play (for what year or game happening)

We usually play until we think it is natural to stop, like the end of a tech, or before an important decision (ie war), or as a general guideline, ~10 turns.

*what's the deadline ( I could play it immediately or monday evening = Finland's time), then when I'm sure what to do with the save)

No deadline for turnsets. We just need to finish before the final date, so take your time!

And yes, if you are able to post a quick summary of what you plan to do, gOng_civ', that'd be great, especially if there is any need for discussion.

 

[gOng_civ']

Thanks Kodii and other teammates yours answers.
I don't do nothing before somebody/anybody have gave some comments for this "The Rough turnsetplan of gOng_civ' "

Try to crush Shaka with 3 axe, one go across jungle by land and 2 other by galley from sea. ( we will use this galley for populationing of marble island after that mission)

So the capital could build after first axeman finished, axe, galley, axe then lighthouse and GLH (or settler before that symbiosis?)
Second city: warrior, WB, worker,

I calculated something and I end up for result that the optional size of capital have to be something like 6 or 7 during the GLH building... (<- sorry 'bout my bad explaining ^^)

Worker could do the road for gold, then pasture second city pig and last build mine to the forest/hill with river (area of capital) and increase too our GLH building get some productive by clearing the forest.

Tech thinking; sailing - mysticism - masonry - (my turns end (?) - (pottery) -[ - writing -aesthetics (Shwedagon Paya and other wonders, we have gold... and maybe marble to Parthenon and ivory for building of Statue of Zeus =) ) - literature (GLb) etc....]

*And what means it what somebody say about "cheap MP warrior by turning sailing to mysticism..." or something else... ( I don't understand what this means, could somebody explain that idea clearly )

I'm waiting the order: "you can start play..."

 

[Kodii]

I'm not sure about the galley. We could probably use that production on some more axes to ensure that we can eliminate Shaka.

 

[gOng_civ']

Do you think it's better do the 4 axe and lighthouse and GLH first, then settler and galley?

Jabah: Do you mean exactly "of chopping the tree S of capital immediatly into an axe to have 2 quick axes" the hill 1 S capital or 1S worker?

 

[Jabah]

I would do 4axe , lghthouse, GLH at the capital
warrior, galley, settler ? at the second city.

For the worker:
Probably no need to road gold for a little while. I like the idea (timmy's idea ?) of chopping the tree S of capital immediatly into an axe to have 2 quick axes. Then it could go to pasturise pig, then probably mine another hill (or 2) for the second city before going back to capital cutting any tree (I would chop only for the GLH, not the regular lighthouse)

 

[TheArchduke]

Guys, to be on a somewhat safe side we need 6 axes minimum, but rather 8 axes. 4 axes is putting too much at risk.

Or to be it more bluntly, we should err on the side of caution.

 

[gOng_civ']

Guys, to be on a somewhat safe side we need 6 axes minimum, but rather 8 axes. 4 axes is putting too much at risk.

Or to be it more bluntly, we should err on the side of caution.

So... so so... well... in that way of 'making everything clearly' we get risk miss GLH (?) So, what is more important do first: build GLH or beat Shaka.

Or if I do just 3 or 4 axe, lighthouse and start GLH (it depend what I have time to do my turn but however team will do this?!?), and the other 2 axes could go reserve (after building GLH first) with builded galley...

(AND nobody have comment tech's thinking, is it good enough)

I don't know, if I just play my turns tuesday midday ( GMT +3 time), then when there will be other replies in the thread for this latest messages - hope some golden crown about plan among team. * and one more "or" - if I just play it then...*

 

[gOng_civ']

I will play my turns at forward 10:30PM (GMT +3time) today. Sorry for delaying...

 

[Jabah]

We can't wait to have 8 axes together anyway, so go with the first 2 close together and the next arriving when they are ready.

Anyway, you probably just 'pause' before declaring (likely also at the end of your turnset, since it will take something like 10t for the axe to walk there...)

 

[TheArchduke]

Guys, did you actually wage an early war before?

The key here is to have way more troops then the AI and suprise it. To kill 2 archers with 6 axes.

If you go with 2 axes and send the rest later, the AI will wipe pop to get 3 more archers, voila, goodbye rush.

Absolute minimum 6 axes. If you guys feel to insecure about it, let someone else play the turnset.


If we build 2 axes to get a worker and dow him so he is warned and then attack 10 turns later, then don´t do it. This would be no rush, but suicide.

 

[Jabah]

That is why I think we should pause before declaring. (which won't happen in the next 15t). Even if we want to actually attack with all 6+ axes, we should send the first 2 immediatly to get more information (and you could always get a worker or settler with them, the AI will build more archers -if he has archery- but you could disconnect his metal, and let him have a little rest so he build another settler to leave with the extra defence 10t later. Also he will not whip millions of archer if he is not in slavery, so if axe #3 is close behind, capturing a city against 1 or 2 unpromoted archer is still possible)

If we want 6 quick axes, then whipping and chopping will be needed and city #2 can't really help.

I am afraid that this will be quite counter-productive regarding our hope for GLH (still hope because only monarch) and also our long term. (at least compared to other team).

I really think we should have a bit more discussion (and especially hearing from everyone, as we are just a few to monopolise the posts right now).

 

[gOng_civ']

I'm not so stupid that I declare war for my turn without enough army, I don't want to break any of teamplay rules and good spirit.If I just play my turnset so couple of turns (~10t- 15t) tonight and someone else can keep playing...

The possible way is also keep peaceful. Build couple of axe and galley go to check out quickly Shaka's land and then think what next; 1.is it look good; build some more axe 2. if not, populate marble island...*edit* But however, not in any moment declare war without the enough size of military.

 

[orb]

I agree that to axe rush we need min 6 axe's. (Might be lucky with 5 but I'd rather have 6 or more.)

Whip/chop is the only way. - the quicker the better.

Maybe once 2nd city has expanded it's borders we could get a 2nd worker to road to Shaka....but if doing this then send a few axe's along the route to prevent losing the worker to wandering Barbs.

It's worth sending 1 axe right up to Shaka's border (on a hill if there is one handy) just to get an idea of what we are facing.

Once we have captured Shaka's capital we can chop as much lighthouse/GLH as possible. - We might not get it...we should be prepared for this.

 

[gOng_civ']

ok.. Now I have hear almost anybody opinions about the next turnset things... I could play it, but I notice one thing that I don't understand: "- I would change research to mystiscism before finishing sailing to let the new city build a cheap MP warrior." <- what the hell this means?!?!?!? could somebody explain what's the point and what this term cheap MP warrior means...
After that thing coming clear, I will play it... (I think it will be ~13 turns turnset)