SGOTM 13 - Gypsy Kings

For the record, I've written an entire Civ4 simulation program - it was a good project for me to practice my C# programming. It reads the XML and everything :lol:

Wow. In the abstract, I'd have written this thing in Python and recycled the SDK code, but I didn't want to spend my time designing a format for inputting build orders and tile usages, and outputting results. That's where the spreadsheet approach wins out.
 
Windows 7 has a zip utility built in - select the files, right click, send to compressed folder, upload that. Need another tool for Windows XP, though.

compressing the files isn't a problem but uploading files still doesn't work. I can post the file to a free google website I guess.
 
Well done bc!

I want to shorten up the turnsets now as they will get more complicated as we move forward.

The Roster order is

mabraham = waiting
adrianj = waiting
Ronnie1 = waiting
bcool = just played
grifftavian = UP NOW
Thorn = on deck
da_Vinci = in the hole


@ Griff...look for a break point 10-15 turns out please
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by adrianj
We will need a reasonably robust economy, and a GPFarm capital with settled GProph and many Caste System merchants would certainly help.

... somewhat. CC has enough food for 7 specialists + GProphet, i.e. 23from merchants. We'd have found time for grocer and market in this scenario, so call that 34. The empire income in my played-out game is 813, so our GP farm running merchants is nice, but only a small fish. Some more GPs to give me a Golden Age for Free Market for +3-4in each of 40 cities, however...

I'm imagining that aj was talking about the trade missions from the Great Merchants more than the output of the merchants themselves.
 
Good job, bc! :hatsoff:

I have the save, will begin working on a PPP.

Some general questions...

CC will grow & become unhappy next turn, however, we can build Monument this turn in 1 turn with whip overflow to counteract this. After that, I'm guessing we want Warrior/Settler for a city near the Stone, or do we need to squeeze in another Worker?

Is plan still to whip The Oracle this turn & take Metal Casting? If so, Fish Hills borders will pop in 2 turns; do we want to start on Forge next in FH, or build a Lighthouse first?

Work Boat 4: Is this to be an exploring WB, and we let Fish Hills build another WB to net its Fish, or do we want this WB to sail back to those Fish eventually?

Galley 1: Picks up Worker 1 and takes him to western island for Mining & Chopping, then sails SW to explore around Marble before heading back to CC to pick up Warrior 2 & Settler for City near the Stone. How does that sound?

:( Still can't add attachments :(
 
some thoughts on builds

FH
whip Oracle yes. Metal Casting yes.
Suggested plan switch tiles to the mines and build a workboat next while losing a bit of food
Next build might be another workboat. I'd like to do more exploring before the barb galley come and kill our exploratory workboats.

CC
We need to play with numbers

Possibility 1
Lighthouse (grows to unhappy)
Starts settler next turn (unhappy citizen won't eat while building a settler so it isn't that big of a negative)
whip with OF for warrior
perhaps grow to 6 on partial warrior build that interrupts settler

Possibility 2
Monument
Starts Settler
whip with OF for warrior
perhaps grow to 6 on partial warrior build, that interrupts settler

Possibility 3
OF goes to Settler directly

Variations
CC steals Pmine so that it doesn't grow this turn builds lighthouse, settler
Delays workboat in FH

Sorry I didn't upload a test game. I'll do that now.
 
By the way if I do a google search of Sgotm13 I get access to Mabraham's list of test files !!!

and crap I thought I had a test game saved with the new worker plan, but I don't

Griff do you already have it from your earlier test?
 
...I thought I had a test game saved with the new worker plan, but I don't

Griff do you already have it from your earlier test?
Yes, I have one. Still can't add attachments, I'll try e-mailing the Test Game. I've got e-mail addresses for most from Windows Live that were in use during SG11. Let me know if you don't get it.

I don't have an e-mail address for mab, so if anyone does, please forward the game

or...

@mab: send me a quick note at grifftavian@gmail.com, and I'll send the test game to you.
 
By the way if I do a google search of Sgotm13 I get access to Mabraham's list of test files !!!

Yeah, I knew it wasn't secure. Only test games and information derived from them are there, and only information from the first border pop is in any of the test games. So it's not particularly spoilerish, unless someone wants to guess our intended strategy from what's there... Good luck to them!

I have now added a robots.txt exclusion in the parent directory, so that might start working for better security from search engine hits.
 
Here is an option for CC also...I will work out the details in a little while.

When we whip the Oracle in FH, if we work both mines the turn of the whip and after, we can cut the WB build to 4 turns. This also allows the corn to go to CC so the settler is getting max input. Then with a bit of tile swapping we can whip the settler for 2 pop on T101 with a 42H overflow for a jump start on the Forge or any build we deem appropriate. We should be able to plant C3 on about T104/105 depending on what we find in the fog.
 
I think the test files do reveal possibilities if not our strategy as well.
For example, knowing that you can get the Oracle T94 is enough for most to find out how to do it.

If we can avoid giving other teams any chance at the fruits of our labor I think we should do it.
 
By the way, the save I uploaded might behaved strangely for you (brings up a build window for the capital) because

I have the option minimize popups on. I like this option because it doesn't immediately ask you for builds at the beginning of the turn, but lets you deal with them when you want. If you never select a new build then the pop up comes at the end of the turn.
 
By the way, the save I uploaded might behaved strangely for you (brings up a build window for the capital) because

I have the option minimize popups on. I like this option because it doesn't immediately ask you for builds at the beginning of the turn, but lets you deal with them when you want. If you never select a new build then the pop up comes at the end of the turn.
Yes, that is what happened when I opened the actual save. I'll change my options to minimize popups as well. Thanks!
 
Yeah, I knew it wasn't secure. Only test games and information derived from them are there, and only information from the first border pop is in any of the test games. So it's not particularly spoilerish, unless someone wants to guess our intended strategy from what's there... Good luck to them!

I have now added a robots.txt exclusion in the parent directory, so that might start working for better security from search engine hits.

I think bc is right...can you take them down? It might be too late anyway, but no reason to pass on information if we don't need to. We can pass whatever files we need to via personal email.
 
I just tested 2 of the options for the next 2 builds in CC.

If we overflow into a Monument and then build settler, we can 2 pop whip the settler on T102 with 42 :hammers: overflow. We have to work everything we have to get this result.

If we overflow into a Lighthouse and then build settler, we can 2 pop whip the settler on T101 with a 43 :hammers: overflow. We also get to give the Corn farm back to FH on T100 to speed growth there by a lot. This seems like the better option IMO.
 
You know how it was right to slow-grow Fish Hills for fastest Oracle? I think the same kind of idea applies to a Duckweed-Pyramids in CC with forge+stone. This is because it has only two good hammers tiles to work, and it can pass off half of its food resources to Fish Hills.

Suppose CC has been whipped down to size 3 with 19 food in the box (worst-case scenario). We work Gmine and two clams (other tiles worked by FH) at 7 food/turn excess. Need 23 to grow, so 4 turns with 5 food overflow. Meanwhile, 16 base hammers went on the 'mids.

At size 4 we work Pmine, Gmine and two clams (other tiles worked by FH) at 5 food/turn excess. Need 19 to grow, so 4 turns with 1 food overflow. Meanwhile, 32 base hammers on the 'mids.

At size 5 we work Pmine, Gmine, two clams and a coast again at 5 food/turn excess. Need 25 to grow, so 5 turns with no food overflow. Meanwhile, 40 base hammers on the 'mids.

At size 6 we put a turn of stuff on a settler (three clams, corn and two mines puts 11+8*1.25=21 hammers on it).

Next turn, we 3-whip it while working 2 clams and Gmine again (3*45*1.25+21+4*1.25 = 194) which gets us 45 overflow - IIRC this doesn't get the forge bonus, because it already has it, but it does get stone, so about 90.

So over those 15 turns we put 16+32+40=88 base hammers on, which is 198 after multipliers, to go with that 90 overflow. So 288 hammers in 15 turns. Three full cycles would build the Pyramids(750) - in practice two cycles and a final whip on about turn 40 (less with some overflow in at the start). Depending on the food and tile situation, some turns working a workshop can happen.

Note
  • that a slow-build of the 'mids using two mines and two workshops would take 34 turns, so the Duckweed is comparable even before we factor in the settlers we built
  • that Fish Hills had the use of corn and one clam throughout, and four turns of the Pmine per cycle
  • a clear majority of the 'mids hammers came from working those mines
  • we can't really get any more hammers from whip overflows
  • that faster growth in CC is possible, but it doesn't have many good :hammers: tiles to work - so we do best to maximise use of the mines so long as we grow fast enough to 3-whip the settler after it has had a turn building
  • my maths might be slightly out, but the principle holds
  • this principle will also hold during the T105-T120 phase when we might build a forge - slow growth hastens the forge, so long as Fish Hills works the food tiles
  • however, the need to give tiles to Fish Hills to work means it can't be running very many scientists (were we to follow that idea bcool had)
 
Especially if there is little risk of being beaten to the pyramids I think we should try to finish the build with 1 or 2 :mad: in FH (maybe) and CC. Growing into the expected happiness is a much stronger play than whipping the pyramids I think. Since we would immediately have excess pop to run as specialists.

I don't think slow building the pyramids and growing FH by having it work corn/clam is necessarily counter to running a scientist or 2 occasionally.
 
By the way, the save I uploaded might behaved strangely for you (brings up a build window for the capital) because

I have the option minimize popups on. I like this option because it doesn't immediately ask you for builds at the beginning of the turn, but lets you deal with them when you want. If you never select a new build then the pop up comes at the end of the turn.

Yeah I use this all the time too. It's vital in multi-player, so that you don't have to compromise all your city build choices to race through and move your army before it gets hacked first...

I think bc is right...can you take them down? It might be too late anyway, but no reason to pass on information if we don't need to. We can pass whatever files we need to via personal email.

OK they're down.

I just tested 2 of the options for the next 2 builds in CC.

If we overflow into a Monument and then build settler, we can 2 pop whip the settler on T102 with 42 :hammers: overflow. We have to work everything we have to get this result.

If we overflow into a Lighthouse and then build settler, we can 2 pop whip the settler on T101 with a 43 :hammers: overflow. We also get to give the Corn farm back to FH on T100 to speed growth there by a lot. This seems like the better option IMO.

The monument is actually only saving one turn of one unhappy citizen. Burn it, I say.

I quite like overflowing to Lighthouse, a turn on a warrior, slow-building a full settler (done T106) with overflow finishing its warrior T107 and a monument T108 (from the last chop). Then three turns on another settler times in with our whip-:mad: expiring -> bam a second settler on T111. Spam it out!

Then we slow-build a forge, or whatever.
 
We might want to put a turn of building the pyramids very soon. The AI know when a wonder has been started and it does affect their decisions about what to tech. So if any AI doesn't know Masonry it is less likely to start researching it if we have 1 hammer into a pyramid build.

Also we may want to build wealth by putting a turn of the pyramids in FH and then erasing it from the build queue (like every time we switch to a settler build in CC) When we do finish the pyramids those stone enhanced hammers are converted to gold.
 
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