SGOTM 13 - TNT thread

[dima42]

By the way, I'm now absolutely positive we're in zero time pressure. It might be good to keep playing so we don't lose interest, but I'm guessing that any one of us can now at least win the game in one sitting .

jj, population is going to be way over limit. We're already over limit, and we're about to get some populous cities.

keath, i think our initial settling was optimal (that crab is pretty worthless, and i doubt anyone settled for it). sip was about as good, maybe slightly better, because of the fish for 2nd city that we didn't know about. but there's no way we could have prevented that, and it probably wasn't worth going back after exploring island.

 

[fizbankovi]

i am winning the earth challange map on deity...! juhuuu! Im at 600 AD now, and am 4th at score, with perfect diplomatic surroundings...

 

[The Dude Esq]

Yer,

after having a little more of goose, I'll prob just follow the experts. I don't tend to play many warmongering games. So apologies I may not be inputting much, just plagiarising others, and putting it into a format I can digest. I even decided to unashamedly steal Keath's headers.

Warring: Mopping up Vicky, the troops can move on from London next turn to the next target. Cathy could prove a bit harder. Possibly move the War Elephant to Moscow to cover for calvary. Probably stay put for a few turn to heal / see what Cathy throws at us.

Trading: Trade for Nationalism with Joao, as we may not need to bump him off to get to the Domination Limit.

Drafting and setting up for the next assult: The next suspecting victim will be Willem then. We may need to send some more forces to Russia? I can't remember if I saw anything more heading over there, can play it by ear.

I've never tried to close a game out by a massive unit spank out! So pleased to learn a v good trick. If Dima is conservative with his whipping, I'm usually uber conservative. But I'll crank them out this time. If we whip a lot next turn some cities will be able to whip 5ish Frigates the following turn. What is the actual benefit (ie cost) of drafting compared to whipping, as you get less experience. I know I'm a builder, a cheap barracks for 2 happiness, surely it's worth it? I'll trust the veterans.

Micromanagement: I'll prob do a massive military blunder, but should do a good job at micromanagement. Jelling, Borg n Hait are unhappy, so need to whipped. (Not that everthing isn't anyway,) so possibly change production to get rid of say three pop. There are idle workers and land to improve near Birkai. The production in Velencia needs changing from culture too.

I s'pose these are some first thoughts. Please keep all the ideas coming. I really don't have a clue! Have I missed anything?

I'm going to enjoy rooting round the map, digging out some of the preceding strategy for winning well on a warmongers path.

 

[Keath]

It is probably moot at this point and not totally applicable to Civ, but a truly first class guide to war is an ancient text - Sun Tzu's Art of War. It has stood the test of time and is still used in military academies to this day. It's a truly brilliant insight into the importance of war to the state, a guide to tactics and strategy and a very cool read.

 

[dima42]

No, barracks isn't worth it. Happiness is worth nothing at this stage of the game .

Whip units every other turn in every city (with food instead of hammers in all cities where you're whipping, which should be 80% of cities right now and all cities except for Corsica starting in about 20 turns.) Draft every turn to max (it's cheaper than whipping per shields).

 

[The Dude Esq]

Actually I have read the Art of War. Well, at least dipped into some gd chunks of it. An interesting read! Took away that everything is an interconnected set of clogs (according to Sun Tzu).

 

[Keath]

Keath take my turn set please, I will not be able to play at least till next tuesday maybe more I can play my part after you or 2metra. (in case we don't win before :] ) thanx

Will do.

@The Dude - If there are only about 40 turns left before domination, how many turns would you like to play?

Any further advice for The Dude from our generals?

 

[2metraninja]

Beware of counterattacks.

 

[The Dude Esq]

I'm quite easy! Don't mean to hog the last bit of the game.

I'd be quite happy with a couple of turns, post some comments / screenshots. Then maybe another couple. Something like that. Can see when it'll a good time to hand over. (prob sooner rather than later!)

Might as well get on with it then. Just going to brew a cup of tea to get into the zone. Back in a bit then.

@Metra: thanks for the last apt words!

 

[Keath]

Good luck, Dude!!

 

[The Dude Esq]

Well, I've had a tinker. Yes, didn't get many moves done (err, actually none.) Just thought I'd like to get a feel for the game in the end.

I did get wine from Joao. He wanted marble for it, which I thought was a v gd trade, as you can't do too much with it at this point. (Oh, I've just remembered the Tal Mahal.) Was thinking though we may as well get Nationalism off this turn anyway, so all the reason in case he starts building it. I think it would be better to trade gunpowder (and liberalism) rather than chemistry.

So we may as well change civics as well. Free Religion is a no brainer. But I was thinking of going for Police State too. I hear it is quite expensive though. (If we're not bothered about happiness anyhow, and should get a small bonus to most cities from FR.)

There is a bit of unexplored map, so I did wonder about trading maps, (not sure if this is possible.)

Obviously moving troops around to where they wont to be is the most important thing now. I'm not sure what enKage's appraisal is if we need any more troops against Catherine. But I like the idea of placing plenty there for the next war against Williem. (Though I s'pose galleys could unload them to the spot quicker. And we seem to have plenty of these!)

So just moved things about about a bit. Sent two galleys down to collect some men on the bottom island. Gave some workers jobs to do building farms, which I thought could be better than workshops. I couldn't resist just putting in a couple workboat. One for an inland resource, which shouldn't get plundered and one in the core, which may be ok.

Are there any ideas about what to research next, we haven't got so much to spend money on? Rifling could be a long way off, perhaps Military Science is better?

More questions than answers in this post!

Ed: Oops and Versailles, oh dear perhaps wasn't a good trade, but were not going to build these ourselves!

 

[The Dude Esq]

Just had another thought. It's my party trick - arguing for a strategy when we have already agreed not to! I am wondering about whether it would be a good ploy to go for a Golden Age. I had never really considered Dima's analysis that a Golden Age is a diminishing return on Great People. (s'pose I had always assumed Golden Ages were massively powerful.) We would need two this time, and we have 2 Great Profits and 1 Great Merchant. The Great Merchant could be pretty useful, for a trade mission, or he could bulb Guilds (though I wasn't going to suggest guilds as the next tech, we seem to have knights covered by the musketeer.) The Great Profits aren't that useful though. They can only bulb Divine Right. All the shrines in our territory have been built (even if they would make that much impact at this stage of the game.) The Golden Age would save us a turn of anarchy then, speeding us up a turn. I'd be loathed to use a GM, but what should we do with the GPs? Just settle them? On the side of a Golden Age, we have a massive empire, so lots of extra hammers and gold!

It may be well not worth it changing to a religion. We have a real spread of religion, with no more than three cities with any one religion. (We wont get the experience of Theocracy if we are mainly drafting anyhow.) So I would go for Free Religion anyhow.

I was going to comment too. I did notice how we have a real monoculture of units - macemen and trebs. I spose these are what you need for capturing cities. I would have always mixed it up a bit more. Perhaps we need a couple of pikemen against mounted units, and I do like a few longbowmen to defend cities and hill. (I'll check again and see what kind of units we will come up against with Willem.) They get out of date with the muscat, but actually they are cheaper, and do the same job for defending a hilled city. Maybe we just weren't planning on doing any defending. On the same theme we are about to get pounced on by a catapult in Moscow. If we had a mounted unit I would prob have countered attacked, and then retreated. It is defended by two longbows, so we are not certain to win. Might just be best to take it on the chin.

Some more thoughts, more Questions than answers as always!

 

[2metraninja]

I vote for a GA - I said this already. GA may have diminishing returns, but it also have the snow-ball effect, so I think it is well worth.

Monocultures are never good. Muskets are not any better, but with France, we will have Musketeers, which can be perfect for our mountedless army

 

[dima42]

I agree with a golden age here, because the prophet is worthless and we get more gold through the golden age than a merchant mission.

Sorry that I left you with basically only two unit types. I did use longbows for stack defenses, but they're mostly gone. But you can always whip some more .

That being said, musketeers are pretty good and without obvious weaknesses. I would build almost all musketeers at this point.

 

[Keath]

How many frigates do we want to bombard cities? I agree that musketeers are our best land unit and good defenders, too. Have fun.

Edit: And go for the GA.

 

[2metraninja]

5-6 frigates are enough to bombard even 60% culture down to zero in single volley.

 

[The Dude Esq]

@Dima, sorry didn't mean to dig! Just a symptom of your hard won battles then.

Awesome, thanks for the discussion. Hopefully I will get on with a couple of turn tis time then.

 

[The Dude Esq]

Yep, think it's all going smoothly.

I've had three turns. Economically, I've been whipping and drafting like mad. (Slight mistake, never really drafted, and forgot you could only draft 3 per turn, so didn't do on first, oops.) But we seem to be slowly getting the troops in the right place. We've taken Canterbury. I've sent a couple more macemen up to Coventry, so may a few short for York. Vicky has just had a GG born there so may be a little tougher. Just a question of moving through all her culture. We have a few galleys there which could speed things up to her southern city. May not really make to much odds.

In Russia we're on the offensive too. We're not really up against too much, so playing quite offensively. Novgrad and Rostov will only be a matter of time. Yaroslavl may be a bit of a thorn. So it's the big question to go after it before declaring war on Willem. It would be good but most of the action with Willem could be on this continent. Maybe it's not such a biggie. We could whip the frigate in Marcia for support, and use the troops in our Western territory for it. Just quite a few turns of troop movement (like the rest of the map.)

So keep building for Willem really! (How obvious should one be in front of the AI?)

Ed: we are teching Military Science, need on more turn of gold, then tech in 4 turns.

 

[Keath]

^^ Haven't had a chance to look at the save yet but sounds good. Are you planning to play a few more turns? If not, could you post the save to the Progress and Results page?

@ enKage - if you can play your set just let me know.

 

[The Dude Esq]

Ho Ho, that was mighty enjoyable! I did have a couple more turns. (Think it was four (4).)

The English are no more. Been preparing for the Dutch next. If left up to me I would be too tempted to pull the trigger next turn. I've prepared a couple of galley thrusts. With a few frigates in the centre. But perhaps we aren't prepared enough along the Russian border? We don't want to lose Moscow. Cathy still has a couple cities. Novgorod (I think that's the one) will go next turn. Never really made up my mind about Yaroslavl. In the end I split the force there. Two musketeers and treb to besiege it. With three more musketeers to be deployed along the Russian / Dutch border if needed.

We are just about to complete Military Science. So another question for the floor. I'll be interested to hear how much you plan to draft / whip now.

Sorry if my build up against the Dutch may not have been that subtle. Would be also interested to know if you can deceive the AI with build up?

Can't really think of any other notes. I will upload the save now to Results and Progress.