SGOTM 19 - Unusual Suspects

[SteelHorse]

OK - will play in a couple of hours. Sounds like the consensus is to scout NW. I like the 1-turn into Axe before barracks in Cap idea as well. Will factor that in.

 

[SteelHorse]

Was playing 3rd turn and a couple of issues came up. First, game froze, so I am going to PM kcd and Alan. Replayed from autosave identically and saved for now.

Second issue is appearance of a barb archer 3S1E of The Hague.

Spoiler :

I am not sure when barbs start entering borders. So I am pausing for advice.
Options seem to be:
1. Ignore if barbs will not enter borders this early.
2. Move the warrior in Ams 2S. And wait the see if archer approaches.
2a. Archer approaches - move warrior to TH.
2b. Archer does not approach - warrior stay put in case.
2c. Archer does not approach - move warrior back to Ams.

That leaves the question of what to build in Ams. Plan had been barracks.
Options seem to be:
3. Barracks
4. warrior - 1 turn to build, 3 to move to TH
5. archer - 2 turns to build, 2 to move to TH (since road will be ready)

My gut says to go with options 2a/2c depending on the barb archer and option 5 for Ams build. Note: Ams goes unhappy in 2 turns with a garrison.

 

[SteelHorse]

OK. Found this. Seems to say that 1-move point barbs will not enter borders unless:
1. NumCities > 2*NumPlayersAlive and they can pillage a tile on the next turn
or
2. NumCities > 3*NumPlayersAlive and they can either pillage on the 3rd turn or attack city on the second turn

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7461350&postcount=6

Since the 4 visible players have 10 cities the other 3 would need to have 12 or 4 each which seems very unlikely, so we should be safe from attack for now. That said, we probably are not far from that point.

 

[TalladegaKnight]

Was playing 3rd turn and a couple of issues came up. First, game froze, so I am going to PM kcd and Alan. Replayed from autosave identically and saved for now.

Second issue is appearance of a barb archer 3S1E of The Hague.

Spoiler :

I am not sure when barbs start entering borders. So I am pausing for advice.
Options seem to be:
1. Ignore if barbs will not enter borders this early.
2. Move the warrior in Ams 2S. And wait the see if archer approaches.
2a. Archer approaches - move warrior to TH.
2b. Archer does not approach - warrior stay put in case.
2c. Archer does not approach - move warrior back to Ams.

That leaves the question of what to build in Ams. Plan had been barracks.
Options seem to be:
3. Barracks
4. warrior - 1 turn to build, 3 to move to TH
5. archer - 2 turns to build, 2 to move to TH (since road will be ready)

My gut says to go with options 2a/2c depending on the barb archer and option 5 for Ams build. Note: Ams goes unhappy in 2 turns with a garrison.

I agree that archer will probably not enter borders yet, but we are not far from that point. I would send the warrior on his way to TH(option 2) and I think build another warrior to garrison cap. Getting a couple of axes seems like a priority. The question is can we wait on barracks to complete 1st? Barbs are pesky during this one. Good luck with the rest of set.

 

[SteelHorse]

OK - proceeding now.

 

[SteelHorse]

Turn Notes T30-T35:
Pretty much to plan. Math is in. Barb archer in the south did not come any closer.
Met Kubla of Spain on T33 and opened borders - looks like he is in the NW.
One interesting item is that Toku and Kubla are very good buddies.

Spoiler :

Scout has been playing hide-and-go-seek with a barb Axe in the NW as well.
No one with Alpha.
Good news Constantinople (Asoka Cap) not on hill and is Budd holy city. Bad news - horse connected in north. Will needs some spears if we plan to attack.

Spoiler :

Save checked in.
Will work on some thoughts this afternoon.
Key Questions:
* Is now the time to attack or should we get Constr and Cats first?
* Should we expand first?
* What tech next?
* Looks like we are safe from barb enterring borders for a few more turns, but they have axes. Do we need some fog-busting? If so, archers?

Save:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/download.php?file=Unusual_Suspects_SG019_BC2560_01.CivBeyondSwordSave
Here is your Session Turn Log from 2800 BC to 2560 BC:

Spoiler :

Turn 31, 2760 BC: You have constructed a Granary in Utrecht. Work has now begun on a Axeman.
Turn 31, 2760 BC: Asoka adopts Organized Religion!

Turn 32, 2720 BC: The Hague has been founded.

Turn 34, 2640 BC: Amsterdam has grown to size 5.
Turn 34, 2640 BC: Amsterdam can hurry Barracks for 2⇴ with 31ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 20 turns.

Turn 35, 2600 BC: Utrecht can hurry Axeman for 1⇴ with 1ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 16 turns.
Turn 35, 2600 BC: Amsterdam will grow to size 6 on the next turn.
Turn 35, 2600 BC: Utrecht will grow to size 3 on the next turn.
Turn 35, 2600 BC: You have discovered Mathematics!
Turn 35, 2600 BC: Kublai Khan has founded Seville in a distant land.

Turn 36, 2560 BC: Amsterdam has grown to size 6.
Turn 36, 2560 BC: Utrecht has grown to size 3.

Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)

Spoiler :

------------------------------------------------
Turn 30/500 (2800 BC) [17-Feb-2014 18:31:16]
A Quarry was built near Amsterdam
100% Research: 16 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -3 per turn, 176 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Amsterdam
Amsterdam finishes: Settler

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Asoka (Byzantium) towards Trumpster (Netherlands), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

Turn 31/500 (2760 BC) [17-Feb-2014 18:33:52]
Amsterdam begins: Monument (4 turns)
Utrecht begins: Axeman (35 turns)
Utrecht begins: Axeman (35 turns)
100% Research: 12 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -4 per turn, 173 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Utrecht
Amsterdam grows to size 4
Amsterdam finishes: Monument
Utrecht grows to size 2
Utrecht finishes: Granary

Other Player Actions:
Civics Change: Asoka(Byzantium) from 'Paganism' to 'Organized Religion'

Turn 32/500 (2720 BC) [17-Feb-2014 18:39:11]
Amsterdam begins: Barracks (7 turns)
The Hague founded
The Hague begins: Granary (60 turns)

Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 32/500 (2720 BC) [17-Feb-2014 18:52:05]
Amsterdam begins: Barracks (7 turns)
The Hague founded
The Hague begins: Granary (60 turns)

Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 32/500 (2720 BC) [18-Feb-2014 10:34:27]
Amsterdam begins: Warrior (2 turns)
100% Research: 17 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -7 per turn, 169 in the bank

After End Turn:
Amsterdam finishes: Warrior
A Hamlet was built near Utrecht

Other Player Actions:
Player contact made: Kublai Khan of Spain

Turn 33/500 (2680 BC) [18-Feb-2014 10:35:31]
Amsterdam begins: Barracks (7 turns)
100% Research: 18 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -7 per turn, 162 in the bank

After End Turn:
Amsterdam grows to size 5

Turn 34/500 (2640 BC) [18-Feb-2014 10:43:31]
100% Research: 19 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -7 per turn, 155 in the bank

After End Turn:
Whip anger has decreased in Amsterdam

Turn 35/500 (2600 BC) [18-Feb-2014 10:49:28]
100% Research: 19 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -7 per turn, 148 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Mathematics
Amsterdam grows to size 6
Utrecht grows to size 3

Turn 36/500 (2560 BC) [18-Feb-2014 10:55:16]
Research begun: Currency (23 Turns)

EDIT: Take care with save forgot to pause.

 

[TalladegaKnight]

Great set SH. I'll take a look at work today and maybe do some testing. So far Asoka and a bunch of warmonger types. My gut says attack now with axes only. Take his core. Should we gift him a tundra city down south 1st?

I'll bring my laptop to work to update test map. I think a little testing is in order for deciding next tech. Axe rush vs axe catapult vs peaceful expansion.

 

[TalladegaKnight]

Question, where do you get the BUFFY log from?

 

[SteelHorse]

Here is an updated test game. I did not play around trying to add Kubla however.
Generally the BUFFY log can be found in the BUFFY mod directory - "Mods\BUFFY-3.19.003\Autolog".
However logging must be turned on from the BUFFY Options screen.

Spoiler :

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/36968267/Civ/SuspectTest%20BC-2720.CivBeyondSwordSave
EDIT: Note on test map. I had to change 1N of TH to a plains hills as I screwed up the test map and worked plains forest for 2 turns instead of grasshill in the real game. I was trying to get the hammers and food the same. So 1 turn on plains hills then flip back to grasshill on tile 1N. Or if you want to update using platy's go ahead and repost. I did download and got to load a WB map, but still trying to get to work with the test save.

 

[SteelHorse]

Great set SH. I'll take a look at work today and maybe do some testing. So far Asoka and a bunch of warmonger types. My gut says attack now with axes only. Take his core. Should we gift him a tundra city down south 1st?

What is thinking on a gift city? Fight barbs?
The downside is that the captured cities will have the "motherhood" unhappiness issues.

 

[TalladegaKnight]

Here is an updated test game. I did not play around trying to add Kubla however.
Generally the BUFFY log can be found in the BUFFY mod directory - "Mods\BUFFY-3.19.003\Autolog".
However logging must be turned on from the BUFFY Options screen.

Spoiler :

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/36968267/Civ/SuspectTest%20BC-2720.CivBeyondSwordSave
EDIT: Note on test map. I had to change 1N of TH to a plains hills as I screwed up the test map and worked plains forest for 2 turns instead of grasshill in the real game. I was trying to get the hammers and food the same. So 1 turn on plains hills then flip back to grasshill on tile 1N. Or if you want to update using platy's go ahead and repost. I did download and got to load a WB map, but still trying to get to work with the test save.

Thx for test map. I will work some on it tonight. Check out the advanced world builder I posted last week. It is pretty straight forward to add an AI. Also no more switching tiles around to get production and food just right. Those are editable in it. I know how frustrating that is to get it right from past experience.

What is thinking on a gift city? Fight barbs?
The downside is that the captured cities will have the "motherhood" unhappiness issues.

I changed my mind on that. I thought it might be better to keep him alive but if he is neutered, he won't be useful.

 

[SteelHorse]

Great set SH. I'll take a look at work today and maybe do some testing. So far Asoka and a bunch of warmonger types. My gut says attack now with axes only. Take his core. Should we gift him a tundra city down south 1st?

Assuming we don't find metal I think we should attack with axes and a couple of spears. If we find metal in Asoka's land we may need to change plans. I suggest 1 axe and 1 spear head north to the horses and position to pillage. And a force of 2 spears and 7 axes for Constantinople.

 

[Deckhand]

Hi guys, please carry on without me. Leaving from CA to TN in a few minutes. Will try to follow along somewhat on my iPhone. Go Team! Beat Apostrophes!

 

[TalladegaKnight]

Assuming we don't find metal I think we should attack with axes and a couple of spears. If we find metal in Asoka's land we may need to change plans. I suggest 1 axe and 1 spear head north to the horses and position to pillage. And a force of 2 spears and 7 axes for Constantinople.

I am also leaning that way. If you build a spear in Utrecht now, you will be able to 2pop whip it with OF completing the axe as well.

Next tech: I am liking your place holder of currency. Conquest of Asoka will hurt financially. Currency will ease that.

Is 7 axes enough to start? I've never axe rushed on immortal before.

If you need a test map, I am almost finished updating it. I can finish this AM

Have a nice trip DH. Coming my way. Finally starting to warm up here.

 

[SteelHorse]

I am also leaning that way. If you build a spear in Utrecht now, you will be able to 2pop whip it with OF completing the axe as well.

Next tech: I am liking your place holder of currency. Conquest of Asoka will hurt financially. Currency will ease that.

Is 7 axes enough to start? I've never axe rushed on immortal before.
I am estimating 2.5 per archer, but will do some testing. Hoping for 3 archers in Const, not sure if that is reasonable. More will need to be only the way to continue.

If you need a test map, I am almost finished updating it. I can finish this AM
Wouldn't hurt, but don't sweat it, I think I have enough. More important is to test to see how quickly we can get an army built

Have a nice trip DH. Coming my way. Finally starting to warm up here.
Yes - safe travels.

I think the choices on tech are:
1. Currency - start the begging and selling to keep the coffers filled + the extra trade route.
2. Construction - if we need cats for Asoka
3. Alpha - at least a few turns so that we can hopefully trade math when some one gets it.

I am busy the rest of the day, but will work on a plan tonight.

 

[TalladegaKnight]

Here is an unfinished product

To does
1- our unit in Asoka lands I think is not in the correct spot
2- diplo and espionage need updated
3- since we are in between techs, hard to tell if science is correct

I did update terrain, add Kublai, removed Ramses. I think our cities are correct with food and production.

I can hopefully get something more exact tonight at work.

 

[TalladegaKnight]

I think the choices on tech are:
1. Currency - start the begging and selling to keep the coffers filled + the extra trade route.
2. Construction - if we need cats for Asoka
3. Alpha - at least a few turns so that we can hopefully trade math when some one gets it.

I am busy the rest of the day, but will work on a plan tonight.

I like currency. A few turns in alpha are good too.

 

[astre]

Do asoka have metal? can anyone check the trick where the AI give his best army. I couldn't do it. Anyway, currency is always a solid choice. if you goes either, you have my vote.

Had a look at the save, we need 1 more worker. I propose amsterdam does one now.
Utresh should move to a monument. it needs a border pop one day and a mine if possible.
Other action to be planed by workers is chop, chop and chop (+farm the wheat)

things are going well on exploration, we should go as far as we can to meet everyone.

continue the good job.
I'll be 100% available next monday but i'll try to make a stop at free wifi friday.

 

[SteelHorse]

Do asoka have metal? can anyone check the trick where the AI give his best army. I couldn't do it. Anyway, currency is always a solid choice. if you goes either, you have my vote.

Something about "Cower under the might of my Chariot". So if he has it, he hasn't built axes i assume.

Had a look at the save, we need 1 more worker. I propose amsterdam does one now.
Yes - we need one for chopping out the Axes while the other roads to Asoka.
Utresh should move to a monument. it needs a border pop one day and a mine if possible.
Yes - but the 30 hammers is about 1 Axe. Which we need more at the moment. So I propose we wait on that until after we have our initial force.
Other action to be planed by workers is chop, chop and chop (+farm the wheat)
Was thinking road first, then chops so that we can move troops quicker and get the trade route.
things are going well on exploration, we should go as far as we can to meet everyone.

continue the good job.
I'll be 100% available next monday but i'll try to make a stop at free wifi friday.

Good input - much appreciated.

 

[TalladegaKnight]

The AI only brags about units it can build, so he does not have metal. At least not hooked up.