Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri (SMAC) Civ2 & ToT scenarios development

[CivPartisan]

Moderator Action: This very old abandoned thread by CivPartisan has now become the tracking & development thread for Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri Civ2 & ToT scenarios. - Blake00

Blake's 2024 Civ2 MGE Sid Meier’s Alpha Centauri Scenario Merger Project - IN PROGRESS :
https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...tot-scenarios-development.25759/post-16595741



Blake's Test of Time Sid Meier’s Alpha Centauri Scenario Project - ON HOLD:
While Blake has done some preliminary work on a ToT conversion of the above scenario it is on hold until the original MGE version is completed & released.

John Mavin's 1999 Civ2 MGE Alpha Centauri Scenario Project - RELEASED! :
https://forums.civfanatics.com/resources/alpha-centauri-scenario-mge.28910/



CivPartisan & Andrew Livings's 2002 Civ2 MGE SMAC Scenario Project - PROBABLY DEAD :
CivPartisan & Andrew never finished their project however CivPartisan assured me in 2022 that it was still an open project so there's hope this ancient project may one day be finished. However he has disappeared again so it's not looking good. Which means this old thread below and another thread they made is pretty much as far it got!



CivPartisan's Original Post:

---

Andrew, I was unable to send the file to you...so I decided to just go ahead and open this thread now for file updates and work in progress....I'm posting the work I have done thus far...

https://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/Smacjv.zip

here is a map of planet also:

https://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/Planet.zip


ALRIGHT! DOWNLOADS ARE FIXED! My only excuse was temporary brain death..."in time, all things rejuvenate themselves."

John

 

[Andrew Livings]

I'm editing my original post so this information stays near the top.
This thread is for posting and commenting on work in production. The original thread http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25609 is for postings ideas (though I predict there will be blurring).

Those wishing to check out existing "Alpha Centauri" work for civ2 can d/load John Malvin's scenario http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Realm/8827/scenarios/civii6.htm and/or JV's zip from the above link.

This is the current list of project tasks and who's working on them:

For proposal
Unit lists - Andrew Livings
Improvements list - Andrew Livings
Projects list - Andrew Livings
Technology list - Andrew Livings
Terrain list - Andrew Livings
Commodities list - need to decide if we want trading commodities

Game.txt diplomacy messages - Andrew Livings
Game.txt other pop-ups - Andrew Livings (nearly complete)
Labels.txt - Andrew Livings (nearly complete)
Pedia.txt
Tutorial.txt
Advice.txt
city.txt - complete
describe.txt

Artwork:
Units air - Andrew Livings
Units infantry - Andrew Livings
Units speeders - Andrew Livings
Units naval - Andrew Livings
Units other - Andrew Livings
Cities.gif - John Valdez
Terrain1.gif - John Valdez
Terrain2.gif - John Valdez
Icons.gif - John Valdez / Andrew Livings (I'm working on improvement and project icons)
City.gif interface
Mk.dll leader portraits
other dll files?

Sounds:
Units - John Valdez
City - John Valdez (I'll pencil you in for this, but I can help find suitable stuff)
Diplomatic
Event sounds

Anyone can mail me at aplivings@hotmail.com

This .csv file is just the extracted SMAC tech tree, with notes about pre-reqs and direct civ2 equivalents.

 

[CivPartisan]

hmmm...I thought I checked, but I've been so busy that I may have freaked out missed something...I'll try to upload it again tomorrow, Thursday night PST.

John

 

[Andrew Livings]

It was just a case error.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/Smacjv.zip works.

I'm waiting to hear back from the e-mail I sent to you. I'll go ahead and bash out a tech tree, but we do need to think about:

Ind, Aut/E2, Inv. The face and city changing techs. For the mod we may want the face changes, especially for the specialists later on, but this would not be compatible with a scenario. If we're planning a scenario we could have six unique city styles, but this would not work with the mod. We could have two tech trees...

We can't have Gun or Gue because of the partisans.

I was also thinking: because they are only 70-odd SMAC techs we could make the mod 2.42 standard (no events), and have extended options for FW users. We're going to need support files for both FW and MGE users anyway. Conversion to TOT would be very useful. In fact we may want to think about making graphics for TOT first, then adapting them to Civ2, because of the colours.

 

[Andrew Livings]

Dang! I couldn't edit my last post to add this. The city.txt file.

I can easily bash out some more names for each faction on the same theme.

 

[CivPartisan]

Commodities list - need to decide if we want trading commodities

Actually, lets do this: Trade can be a unit that doesn't ignore ZOC.
That way, you could only trade with allied civs. We'll just tweak this
a little and make the trade unit a shuttle pod or something. It will
have practically unlimited moves but be very high in production cost.

Ind, Aut/E2, Inv. The face and city changing techs. For the mod we may want the face changes, especially for the specialists later on, but this would not be compatible with a scenario.

It never is; we may just have to live with it

If we're planning a scenario we could have six unique city styles, but this would not work with the mod. We could have two tech trees...

That's ok, because it is usually not that critical in a mod. I don't recommend the two tech trees. 1) it is twice the trouble 2) I say
start the scenario with some of the techs already. This solves a lot
of problems and in the end, no matter what you do...techs are
not usually an exact model in scenarios.

We can't have Gun or Gue because of the partisans.

Yes we can. This is how we do it. We make the partisans a mind worms tile and change the text in the Game.txt file to match "the outbreak of mind worms due to recent radiation and thermal activity."

I was also thinking: because they are only 70-odd SMAC techs we could make the mod 2.42 standard (no events), and have extended options for FW users. We're going to need support files for both FW and MGE users anyway.

Very good point. This means that the mod can remain playable by all versions of civ, but have FW/MGE support for the scenario. That's brilliant.

Conversion to TOT would be very useful. In fact we may want to think about making graphics for TOT first, then adapting them to Civ2, because of the colours.

Let's do all the graphics as bitmaps then. This is most likely the
easiest way to create for both at the same time. Basically, for ToT
it is just a matter of transfering images correctly I suppose, but using .bmp files would be the fastest way.

 

[CivPartisan]

Also-

I'm waiting to hear back from the e-mail I sent to you.

I've tried twice...I shall attempt thrice...but it wouldn't go through...something about the file was too large (it said it was more than 5k so it was truncated) but I didn't even attach any files? Is there something set in preferences that does that. I'll try again tonight and see if it works...I could at least just email from the forum.



John

 

[Andrew Livings]

John, just post comments here...so much easier.

There's another problem with the worms as they stand. The other issue is that using the Riflemen and Dragoons slots will use up extra ground sound files. It's bad enough them having swordfgt.wav when it's the most common sound effect in the game, we can't really let them have infantry.wav and Cavalry.wav as well. I propose ditching Met and Tac from the tech tree (we can afford it), unless the barbarian papers are wrong and we may have to juggle some more.

We can't have Gun or Gue because of the partisans

Gue gives them Fanatics and mchnguns.wav as well. I really think we'd be better ditching them. though your idea was ingenious.

We also need a process to make the units. I assume that, like me, you favour screen shots? I read there's a CVR player application which we could try, or (and I recommend) editing in SMAC: create a new map, all ocean, no fungus. Design the units we want (they need to be facing right for TOT) take the screen shot and edit. I'll try this over the weekend to test the results.

We will need to organise a units list. I've tinkered some more, but I'm fast running out of slots. I'm going to ask the SMAC heads what kind of units they usually build (I've not played past Quatum power so I'm not familiar with the later types and costs). I understand a Morgan tactic is to build defensive probe units for the free support.

Faces and cities: I'll leave Aut and Ind out of the tech for special techs. Keep E2 for the Coloseum bonus, and Inv because it stops you receiving techs from goody huts (it'll be mid-late game though).

I'll post my provisional unit list tomorrow for comment, and also my labels.txt (over the weekend) which is 80% done (I need to playtest to see if anything was missed).

TTYL

 

[CivPartisan]

A lot of good ideas Andrew...

What exactly did you have in mind for the mind worms as barbarians? How many slots are we going to lose as a result because...I'm realizing that the units are going to be a big decision...

On another note, as you brought up earlier-- sounds appear to be a problem as well...sounds will have to be carefully integrated, and we may end up with questionable sounds in the end. We need to map out the sounds before we use the unit slots...

And, how will this affect ToT? I'm not as familiar with ToT.

I'd also like to point out that in a scenario, we may be able to get around some of the problems that go beyond the modpack...just something to think about (unfortunately, other problems regarding sound and units get created too).

I have to go to bed, now...it's after 2 AM. Thanks for the great posts!


John

 

[Andrew Livings]

Well my idea about Mind Worms was that if we were going to have them anyway we may as well structure them so they become gradually more powerful in line with the game's development.

TABLE A

Ditch both Csc and Mag and Tac: Barbarians using Swordfgt.wav and Swrdhors.wav
Hatchling_______________Archers (Nil) (Mercenaries + Naval)
Larval Mass_____________Horsemen (Nil) (Mercs + Hordes + Rebels)
Pre-Boil________________Chariots (Nil) (Rebels + Mercs)
Boil____________________Legions (Mercenaries Nil + Hordes Nil + Naval Nil)
Mature Boil_____________Knights (Mercenaries Chi + Naval Chi)
Great Boil______________Crusaders (Mercs MT + Naval Chi)
Demon Boil
Isle of the Deep________Trireme (Nil)
Locusts of Chiron

According to the Barbarian Papers you get Archers, Horsemen, Chariots, Legions, and Triremes initially anyway, so they already have those sound slots. At least this way we can structure them in terms of unit morale and when they make an appearence. An alternative approach in Table B would be to try and force Csc as one of the first techs researched. This would have Riflemen (Infantry.wav) quickly replace the Archers and Chariot units for Mercenaries. You would then need Chi very quickly so Knights and Crusaders replace Archers for Pirates, but they still get Legions anyway from Mountain barbarian Hordes unless we then use Met which replaces Horsemen and Legion Barbarian Hordes with Knights and Muskateers. You'd then also need Gun to have Muskateers replace Mercenary B units (bu only if Iro is researched), but then Horsemen and Chariot Rebels are replaced by Elephants and Archers, unless you then again introduce Ind which uses Muskateers and Cannons. Having all of these techs in quick succession in a mod would be a challenge. You'd then end up with these units:

TABLE B

Barbarians using Swrdhors.wav, Infantry.wav and Medgun.wav
Hatchling_______________Riflement (Mercenaries Csc)
Larval Mass_____________Horsemen (Nil) (Hordes + Rebels) quickly replaced by Csc and Met
Pre-Boil________________Crusaders (Mercs MT + Naval Chi)
Boil____________________Knights (Mercenaries Chi + Hordes Met)
Mature Boil_____________Muskateers (Mercenary Gun (only after Iro) + Hordes Met + Rebels Ind)
Great Boil______________Cannon (Ind) (Rebels)
Demon Boil
Isle of the Deep________Trireme (Nil)
Locusts of Chiron

Of course you don't have to have this kind of structure for either - these are just the unit slots which will be used, but we can use them for whichever units we want. Table B also allows you to use Partisans as worms, but you need to have Csc, Chi, Met, Gun, Iro, and Ind researched in close succession. If this doesn't work we'd need an alternative approach: either not give them their own sounds (bad) or perhaps give all of them helishot.wav and have the 'copters use custom1-3.wav. Or perhaps just those in the swordfgt.wav slots. I do know that that barbarian air units will not move on to ocean squares.

TOT is easy because you can define the associated sound file in the rules.txt

Table B is complicated over Ind and how we incorporate that in the scenario for the extra city style. Table A is not affected because you need both Ind and Gun for the Rebels to change.

How many slots are we going to lose as a result

As a minimum lose five slots and three sound files using either Table. The question is which slots and sounds?

FW Labels attached.

 

[CivPartisan]

I think we should try some experimentation and see which works best...also, let's keep building alternate solutions and see if we can get enough ideas to make this work.

I'll be with my son this weekend so I probably won't get much done...I'll be back in the forum monday and give you the run down on some of the stuff I've come up with so far...

I've been reviewing several different documents regarding the sounds and I'm not getting any solutions...we may have to invent our own (not the first time I've to do this).

Good luck and keep me posted.

John

 

[Andrew Livings]

Well here is the completed tech tree to match the barbarians in Table A. This is a straight conversion, so all techs have the same pre-reqs. For AI values I added up the total AI value modifiers (this was easier to see in the Alpha.csv I posted before), then took the lowest value and used that as base=1. Civ2 modifiers were: -1 for military (C) techs; 0 for infrastructure (B) and Exploration (E) techs, +1 for pure research (D). I've introduced an epoch system, though we can simply use the same icons if necessary. It worked out quite well in civ2 with it's five tech categories. Category number five was "event" technologies. The tech tree steers clear of all the techs with unwanted associations - we had enough without using the user defined techs - so we can use those in the scenario. The user defined techs here are those from the Alien Crossfire expansion (I found I had a demo), in case we want those for an expanded FW version (I think maybe not, or at least, not yet).

Tomorrow I'll work on a suitable tech tree for the barbarians in table B, though on that subject I've been thinking that as there are only two wind worms using swordfgt.wav I'm happy to bite the bullet and use the energy.wav sound effect as our default ground unit sound. We don't need to make that decision just yet, as we can work with both tech trees in parallel (they'll only be slight differences).

The next stage is to work out what units we want so we can map out the order for sound purposes. My ideas so far are pretty much as before:

1st Generation_____2h,1f____17 units (inc 6 basic)
Former___________0,1,1
Scout Patrol_______1,1,1
Probe Team_______0,1,2
Laser Rover_______2,1,2
Synth Sentinels____1,2,1
Impact Squad______4,2,1
Impact Speeder____4,1,2
Transport Foil______0,1,3
Sea Former_______0,2,4
Impact Skimship____4,2,4
Plasma Garrison____1,3,1 ECM
Plasma Probe______0,3,2 ECM
Rover Former______0,2,2
Destroyer ________6,3,6 C2
Missile Rover______6,2,2
Missile Squad______6,3,1 ECM

2nd Generation____4h,2f____16 units (inc 3 basic)
Silksteel Garri______1,4,1 ECM
Destroyer Trans____0,4,5
Chaos Squad______8,4,1 AAA
Chaos Invaders____8,4,1 Amphib
Drop Squad_______8,4,1 Drop (8 range)
Cruiser___________8,4,6 AAA
Chaos Rover______8,3,2
'Copter___________8,3,8
Needlejet _________8,2,12 C2
SAM Needlejet_____8,3,9 SAM
Super Former______1,4,2
SAM Fusion Rover___10,5,2 AAA SAM (before this point we'll have neural grafting to double the special abilities)
Tachyon Infantry___10,5,1 AAA Amphib
Tachyon Cruiser____12,6,6 AAA C2
Conventional______12,1,12
Planet Buster______99,1,12

3rd Generation_____6h,3f____12 units
Tachyon Defensive__12,6,2 AAA C2
Tachyon 'Copter____12,6,8 C2
SAM Shard Cruiser__13,6,6 SAM AAA
Shard Needlejet____13,3,12 C2
Shard Fighter______13,4,9 SAM C2
Shard Hovertank____13,6,3 C2
Quantum Squad____16,8,1 AAA Amphib
Quatum Speeder___16,1,2 C2
Quantum Cruiser___18,9,6 C2 Trained

4th Generation_____8h,4f

Digesting that should keep you busy!

 

[CivPartisan]

This is so cool...Andrew...you've been busy and doing an excellent job...I'm at school right now...I was also wanting to know if you've been telepathing with me lately...this is awesome!

I'll download the file when I get home...but this is going to put us on the track...

I also like the idea of using the User Defined Techs for the Scenario...this will solve a lot of problems...I've been thinking a lot of about the swordfgt.wav and you may be right in that we are stuck with a generic sound...

I'll post again tonight...I can see it coming together now...

John

 

[Andrew Livings]

...is done.
[dance]

I had half of these done last week and spent some time yesterday and today finishing off the list. There are 80 units, which is good for TOT but we'll need to be selective for the mod.

N.B. The compilation uses the alpha centauri pallette for ease of conversion, and TOT can use those colours directly. Conversion for normal civ2 might result in some clean-up work needed.

 

[Andrew Livings]

Game.txt with mostly complete non-diplomacy pop-ups (diplomacy ones will take a bit longer as they aren't quite directly 'portable: SMAC diplomacy script is faction tailored).

I'm leaving my efforts standing at that for a week or two while I go back to finishing my current "Atomic Age" scenario. I promised my testers a beta version weeks ago

JV you need to get back to me on the terrain types. We need to establish those so that we can make the necessary mods to the planet.mp. Also, if you can, can you redo all the artwork conversion you've already done, but this time using the AC pallette. That would be cool



(fun with smileys)

 

[CivPartisan]

Hey Andrew,

Sorry for the delay..I've been spending a load of time working on the terrains trying to clean them up and decide which ones are best to use especially for color and effect...I kinda liked the green but the contrast to the red is too choppy...so I'm trying to do some mixing...turns out that the AC graphics looks best in .bmps rather than .gifs

I'll decide the terrain types this week and probably post all my work by this weekend or next monday...

haha...I see we are both in production mode...that is good...



Congrats on the game.txt

John

 

[CivPartisan]

Ok, Andrew...here is what I've been doing...

I've redone the terrain graphics...not posting at the moment because I am doing some changes to clean up two tiles for shoreline in Terrain2.gif

There were a number of problems that had to be overcome because AC terrains did not match up from PCX to AC palette so standard Civ II palette is used. Terrains will remain gifs. Conversion to .bmp files will not be a problem for ToT.

First, the tiles sizes in AC are nearly twice as large as Civ II, therefore, I had to utilize the X-com technique outlined by Kobyashi to achieve believable terrain graphics.

Second, the number of resources for land are significantly fewer (5=Unity Pod, Monolith, Mineral Resources, Nutrient Bonus, and Energy Bonus). Unity Pod actually replaces Villages. Therefore, Monolith must be a resource instead and cannot have any special functions (unless it is a unit in the extra slot, utilizing a macro command to give money-energy) This is a scenario possibility. Sea resources were limited to Kelp and Sea Fungus (Sea Fungus although not a resource in AC, looks better in Civ II to give the AC atmosphere).

The following is the terrain list:

@TERRAIN
Flat And Arid, 1,2, 0,1,0, yes, 1, 5, 5, yes, 1, 5, 3, Pln, ; Drt
Flat And Moist, 1,2, 1,1,0, yes, 1, 5, 1, For, 0,15, 0, Grs, ; Pln
Flat And Rainy, 1,2, 2,1,0, yes, 1, 5, 2, For, 0,10, 0, Hil, ; Grs
Forest, 2,3, 1,2,0, Pln, 0, 5, 5, no, 0, 5, 0, Grs, ; For
Rolling And Moist,2,4, 1,0,0, yes, 1,10, 0, yes, 3,10, 1, Pln, ; Hil
Cratered And Arid,3,6, 0,1,0, no, 1,10, 0, yes, 1,10, 6, Hil, ; Mou
Rolling And Arid, 1,2, 1,0,0, yes, 1,10, 1, no, 0, 0, 0, Drt, ; Tun
Rocky And Moist, 2,2, 0,0,0, no, 0, 0, 0, yes, 1,15, 3, Tun, ; Gla
Rolling And Rainy,2,3, 1,0,0, Grs, 0,15, 6, For, 0,15, 0, Pln, ; Swa
Flat And Moist, 2,3, 1,0,0, Grs, 0,15, 6, For, 0,15, 0, Pln, ; Jun
Oceanshelf, 1,2, 1,0,2, no, 0, 0, 0, no, 0, 0, 0, no, ; Oce
Wind, 1,2, 3,1,0,
Monolith, 1,2, 1,3,0,
Precipitation, 1,2, 2,1,0,
New Growth, 2,3, 3,2,0,
Vegetation, 2,4, 1,2,0,
UV Radiation, 3,6, 0,1,6,
Vapor, 1,2, 3,1,0,
Vegetation, 2,2, 1,1,4,
Mineral Bonus, 2,3, 1,4,0,
Nutrient Bonus, 2,3, 1,0,4,
Kelp, 1,2, 3,0,2,
Dunes, 1,2, 0,4,0,
Monolith, 1,2, 3,1,0,
Xenofungus, 0,0, 0,0,0,
Seedlings, 2,3, 1,2,3,
Vegetation, 2,4, 1,0,4,
Sulfides, 3,6, 0,4,0,
Spores, 1,2, 2,0,3,
Vegetation, 2,2, 0,4,0,
Energy Bonus, 2,3, 3,0,4,
Nutrient Bonus, 2,3, 4,0,1,
Sea Fungus, 1,2, 2,2,3,

I have not made any decisions about the values yet, but they may
change as soon as I make a determination about their effect in gameplay. I usually way for playtesting to make these changes because its often more accurate that way.

I have also redone the map--

This sort of has to do with the changes in terrain, but mostly as you might have guessed it is because of some of the problems I talked in email about xenofungus.

First, in order for it to have a negative impact during the use certain systems or units it must be a pollution icon.

Second, it CANNOT be swamp or jungle. This is because the "pink" color is absorbed by the Civ II palette to be read as "blue". This is why it comes out blue instead of pinkish red like it is suppost to look.

This caused me to have to go into the map and add "pollution" by hand. As a modpack it is still ok because it should be used with the AC Planet map. This also allows for the growth to occur in the ecology. I've contemplated exchanging the Forest for the Swamp/Jungle squares because this would allow forests to grow.

What do you think?

John

 

[CivPartisan]

Also,

I can convert the units for Classic Civ and include it as a patch. However, conversion to .gif files often means a loss of resolution and colors. I'll still do it, as I am committed to Civ II.

More later,

John

 

[yoshi]

What is it the SMAC project exactly?
It looks as though you are trying to create a 'Planet' scenario in Civ2 using the graphics from SMAC.
I am asking because I was wondering if any body has tried doing the reverse --creating a SMAC mod basing it on the civilization series. Is that even possible?

 

[CivPartisan]

Well yoshi,

It's an attempt at making SMAC for CivII players. The transfer is going a bit slow, but I can say this- it's definitely fun! As far as creating a Civilization game out of SMAC...I'd like to see it!

John