SirPleb, Going for Sid

Remember that highest score isn't the only option in the HOF anymore, so relative advantage to the AI can play a part in some games, while absolute advantage (ie. food on the map) is the major factor in milking games.

For fastest conquest, domination, cultural 20k, and cultural 100k games on higher difficulties, the best option as an Agricultural civ would usually be to play on an Arid/Cold or Arid/Warm map with no Agricultural opponents. This would hurt the AI's much more than it would you, considering that you're probably going to be playing from one of the 'good' starts and can make better use of deserts.

For milking games you want as much Grassland as possible. The AI in your way may be more difficult to deal with, but the map will offer a higher possible score.
 
Originally posted by SirPleb
Wow, the tech pace must be quite something!

I thought so at first, but I was wrong big time. For some reason, the AIs are most likely to follow the same path into Facism. They just love to switch to Facism ASAP to cut down the upkeep for their massive army. Of course, that many troops would often result in a massive world war and nothing we can do to stop them. In the end, I think they mostly to achieve culture victory before they can launch their spaceship.

//Edit: As of this moment, I'm abandoning my Sid game. I'm going to try again when patch 1.20 come out. It's all up to you to make the first entry, SirPleb!:)
 
I'm still playing the same game! :) I think I can win from the current situation, but win decisively and with a good score? That remains unknown. I'm way behind my Deity game in score at the same date. But that could turn around.

I gave away the Great Library as planned, and recently recaptured it at 820AD. I think I waited a bit longer than I should to recapture it. I wanted to get Steam Power and was waiting until I saw two rivals build some railroad. I stopped waiting six turns after I saw the first rail in one rival's land, thinking they'd probably traded by then. (Hard to guess how long Steam Power had been known since they might not have coal or might have a delay while connecting it.)

Retaking the Great Library worked beautifully, I jumped from the start of the Middle Ages to knowing Nationalism, Communism, and Steam Power :)

At my current date, 880AD, I've taken almost all of the land previously owned by two of my smaller rivals. I have 10 4-Knight armies, 5 4-Cavalry armies, 12 additional Knights (kept as such because elite), and 52 additional Cavalry. But I also have the baddest AI I've ever seen to be dealt with. The Zulu have been gaining ground throughout the game. About 10 turns ago I allied them against America, the Civ I'd given the Great Library. Since then the Zulu have been marching nonstop into America. They don't have horses but they're sending monstrous combined stacks of Longbowmen, Medieval Infantry, Musketmen, and Riflemen. The flood of Zulu units has already taken over 8 American cities and seems to be gaining speed. I'll go to war with Zulu now. I've got MPPs set to draw everyone else in. But none of them is connected by land so this will only add a bit of harassment - it will mainly be America and I vs. the Zulu.

I've decided not to flip to Communism. I think it would give me a small boost now and that the boost would grow rapidly. But it doesn't feel right. If I win using Communism I'd feel the win was tainted. (Why care about this when I've happily played tricks with the Great Library? I'm not sure. I think the Great Library tricks feel ok to me because I had to plan for them and make the plan work.) But I will change my mind if Zulu switch to Communism! I'd treat that like having a nuke launched - would consider Communism to be fair game after that :)
 
How does communism taint the win? I have rarely used that form of government so I'm wondering if you could give me some insight on why its so powerful?
 
Originally posted by blindside
I have rarely used that form of government so I'm wondering if you could give me some insight on why its so powerful?
Communism was in most situations a rather weak government in CivIII and PTW. In Conquests it was beefed up a lot.

Click here for a thread where a few people have recently discussed Conquests Communism. If the calculations as I do them in that thread are correct, I could in my current game have a Civ of about 200 cities with each city being just 1/3 corrupt :eek: I'm hoping Firaxis will tone down Communism in a patch.
 
Originally posted by SirPleb
Communism was in most situations a rather weak government in CivIII and PTW. In Conquests it was beefed up a lot.
This is all true, but to understand why, one shouldn't absolutely focus on Communism. You see, in III and PTW, Communism was the "suck" government. (Despotism really doesn't count as a suck government to be avoided, you have to start with it.)

In C3C, Communism is a good government, but probably not overpowered considering the role of suck governments are now handled quite well by Feudalism and Fascism.
 
Apologies for the double post, by I didn't post all my thoughts last night...
Originally posted by SirPleb
If I win using Communism I'd feel the win was tainted.
As a basketball fan and chess player, I respect the hell out of sportsmanlike conduct. While personally in any form of competition, I usually try and exploit any advantage I can within the rules, I do admire class acts such as yourself!

Originally posted by SirPleb
But I will change my mind if Zulu switch to Communism! I'd treat that like having a nuke launched - would consider Communism to be fair game after that :)
Not a bad idea...:goodjob:
 
Sir Pleb, altough I am new in this website, ive been playing civ for a long time. I read Bamspeedy's game on sid level which he won and was amazed. Have you taken some ideas from his game and if you haven't, you probably should
 
Originally posted by El Loco
Sir Pleb, altough I am new in this website, ive been playing civ for a long time. I read Bamspeedy's game on sid level which he won and was amazed. Have you taken some ideas from his game and if you haven't, you probably should
Welcome to CivFanatics El Loco!

Yes, thanks, I have read Bamspeedy's "Beyond Sid" thread. Note that his game isn't at Sid level, it is "Beyond Sid"! Bamspeedy played it before Conquests was released. He modified the PTW rules as described in the first post on his Beyond Sid thread. Of special note is that he set AI production to FOUR TIMES as fast as Sid level in Conquests. He set most other parameters to about the same as Conquests Sid level. Bamspeedy also had different goals from those in my game. E.g. he just wanted to win, that would be extremely challenging already! :lol: Vs. in my game I'm trying for a high score. Still, I am seeing similarities in some areas, e.g. the insane stacks of units AIs can produce. Not as insane in my game as Bamspeedy's, but still large enough to require a different approach.

If you are interested in other tales of tackling a crazy difficulty level I recommend the thread LotR10: Scouting Sid for some good reading :)
 
Another update: I'm still on the same game :)

I've been at war with the monster Zulu empire since my last post, for 20 turns. Each turn is taking quite a while to play.

In those 20 turns I've destroyed 843 Zulu units (42/turn average) - a mix of Longbowmen, Musketmen, Medieval Infantry, Riflemen, Infantry, and Guerillas. I've lost 59 units (3/turn average) - Knights and Cavalry.

At this date (1090AD) my military consists of 9 Armies with 4 Knights each, 2 additional Knights (elites who haven't produced a leader yet), 24 Armies with 4 Cavalry each, 32 additional Cavalry, 65 Cannons + about 15 captured Cannons. Despite this fairly strong force, and despite the 843 destroyed Zulu units, my military advisor still considers me weak vs. the Zulu! :rolleyes: I'm also considered weak vs. two of the other Civs.

For a while I worried that the Zulu might be producing new units as quickly as I was destroying them. But I think I'm getting on top now. I've razed a couple of important Zulu cities, the rate of incoming troops has slowed a bit, and I've finally started pushing my border forward a bit.

I can already see ways that a Sid HOF game might go better. I've made some mistakes (should have mobilized sooner, wasted a bit of effort on non-essential production, didn't start Cannon production as soon as I should've), and if a map were to play out without one Civ becoming such a gorilla things would definitely be easier. Nonetheless, I'm having fun with this one. And I have a lot of time already invested in it. So I intend to finish it! :)

BTW, the Zulu and one other Civ have gone into Fascism. It looks like Communism will not be a factor in this game.
 
I'm in awe SirPleb. 24 Calvary Armies?!?!?!? Wow. Im rooting for you, especially because youre avoiding communism even though you know it would benefit your empire. That's a true champion!

Just out of curiosity, how long is each turn in this massive war? 1 hour? 5 hours?

Thanks for the entertainment, inspiration,
Travis
 
Originally posted by travis555
Just out of curiosity, how long is each turn in this massive war? 1 hour? 5 hours?
The turns sure have gotten long, they're from 1.5 to 2 hours each at this stage.

When things get this complicated I find I have to organize my actions to get the most done and to avoid mistakes. So I play each turn in phases:

1) In the first phase I cycle through all of my units, a few times, until I have them all allocated somewhere. I assign many of the workers tasks in this phase but I reserve about 40 of them near the warfront. Those workers, and all healed units which are on the rail system, I'm sorting into eight big stacks near the warfront, fortifying each in its stack as I decide where it belongs. A stack each of healed Cavalry Armies, healed Knight Armies, slightly damaged (high yellow) armies of both types, Cannons, Elite units (Knights and Cavalry with 4 or 5hp left), Veteran Cavalry, Settlers, Workers. Units wounded more than mentioned above go to, or stay in, barracks towns. There are special cases in this phase for units which are penetrating enemy territory, or where I must clear an enemy off a railroad tile before I can sort other units. Some of the special cases I leave to the next phase, overlapping things a bit.

2) Second phase - handle urgent military situations. Deal with invading units which could reach places I don't want them going next turn, units blocking my path, etc.

3) Third phase - other military activity. During the first part of the war I seldom had many (or any!) units left over from phase 2 and this phase had little activity. In recent turns a good percentage of my force can be dedicated to this phase each turn. Activities include: cleanse my territory of foreign units; reduce or destroy enemy stacks within easy striking distance; dispatch a new task force to important enemy points (resources, luxuries, wonder cities); expand my territory at the warfront border.

Phases 2 and 3 each require planning. Factors include trying to use the least safe power for each fight (e.g. don't waste a healed Cavalry Army attack on a 2HP Rifleman); grouping Cannon and Worker activities so that many can be covered by a single defending army; creating cheap shot situations for my elites to try producing leaders; using units in such a way that they can retreat to safe territory on the same turn.

4) Safety check. When I'm down to a small number of unused military units, review the situation for any undefended or vulnerable point I missed in previous phases and if I find any, try to cover them.

During all the above phases I've been noting each fight result - I keep an editor window open, alt-tab to it and type a letter for each result. At end of turn I count and record them. This is just because I'm curious about these numbers during this war.

5) Review and adjust city production and happiness.

6) Check with each rival to see what deals may be possible.

And then on to the next turn. The inter-turn time is about five minutes at this stage on my computer.
 
Even though I've often read about RR Cavalry sweeps being the conquest portion of someone's game, I've never seen such an enlightening and thorough insight into the approach...
 
Look like your game is going very well, SirPleb!:) I know what you mean about being weak. In my previous Sid game, even when I got over 100 cannons (more than half of them were captured) and 180 cavalries with 10 armies, my advisors still told me that I was the weakest one on the planet.:lol:
 
Thanks for your thorough reply. Next time I'm on a huge map in a big war I'll do something similar. Good luck with your game!
 
The tide has definitely turned in my game now. At 1160AD my ever growing military was finally considered "average" compared with the Zulu. And that of course meant I was well ahead, past the hurdle! :lol: I've now started rapidly moving into their territory. One other Civ (Inca) remains stronger but they're on a separate land mass. They'll be a challenge but I don't have much doubt of the final outcome. The larger challenge from this point onward will be maximizing score. I'm way behind on the timetable I prefer for world domination in a HOF game, don't know how quickly I can get the score rising to what it should be. I'll try to make myself pause next to post a description of the game so far :)
 
Introduction

This is the first part of the detailed description of my huge-Sid game.

The first two posts on this thread describe the pregame plan and the map settings so I won't repeat that information here.

Opening Moves

My capital produced two settlers and then a worker. My second city produced a worker and then a settler. Each of the first four towns was on a river and quickly had an irrigated cattle, so they each gained five food per turn. This resulted in the most rapid opening I've ever had, looking like this at 2630BC:

sirpleb-hof-cfc1-2a.jpg


At this date I had four towns, 3 workers, and 2 warriors.

Next I produced five more workers and one more settler. The workers at this time to hurry granary production; the settler for a coastal town to build curraghs for exploration.

After that my first four towns each built a granary. Salamanca, the capital, became a two turn warrior+worker factory. The other three towns each became a four turn settler factory. In 1700BC they were all operational - from that point on these four core towns produced 3 settlers, 2 warriors, and 2 workers every four turns.

Early Development

I met the Aztecs, my first contact, in 2470BC. It was already too late to trade, I had nothing of interest to them.

In 1750BC I learned Writing, at the fifty turn rate. The Aztecs had already known it for 8 turns by then so I still had nothing to trade. I started research of Philosophy at the maximum rate I could afford.

In 1400BC an Aztec Horseman and Jaguar Warrior landed on my coast. The Aztec presence did not seem friendly. Since I had a few warriors near their landing site I requested that they leave. They declared war. War this early with a Sid AI was a bit scary but I figured I might be ok because there didn't seem to be a land connection between us. As long as the Aztecs landed just a few invaders at a time I could probably handle them with my warriors. That's how it worked out. I killed off a few invaders and paid 60g for peace in 1200BC. A relatively uneventful war, except for launching an Aztec Golden Age (I lost some warriors while destroying invading Jaguar Warriors and presume that launched their GA.)

In 1375BC I made a second contact with Arabia.

And in 1350 I met the Incas. This was my first opportunity to trade for tech. I traded Alphabet to get Masonry and The Wheel. I saw some horses I'd be able to claim, and I could finally start a prebuild of Palace for the Great Library.

I was worried about my chance of building The Great Library. I'd hoped to trade for Masonry and to start a prebuild well before this date. But the game was looking very good in all other respects and seemed well worth continuing.

In 1275BC I finished researching Philosophy, chose Literature as my next tech, and got it immediately - hurray, I'd been first to learn Philosophy! I traded Writing to the Inca for a few techs plus their cash, setting up to trade for Horseback Riding later on. I flipped my prebuild to Great Library and started another prebuild right away for a Forbidden Palace, northeast of my capital to extend the productive region in that direction. Here's how my empire looked at this date (you can see the effects of the war with Aztecs near the northwest coast):

sirpleb-hof-cfc1-2b.jpg


In 1175 I met the Mongols and traded them Writing for Iron Working. Didn't see iron anywhere which made me a bit nervous.

At 1000BC my status was:
23 towns
6 settlers
16 workers (had produced more but some had joined towns)
9 warriors
4 curraghs
4 granaries
24 turns from Great Library
16 turns from Forbidden Palace
4 contacts, embassies with all
945g in treasury
I have horses and one luxury available but don't have either connected yet.

In 875BC I had a nice trade opportunity - I sold Philosophy to the Inca for 328g + 21gpt.

I met a fifth rival, America, in 775BC. And then in 710BC I received welcome news - the Zulu completed The Great Wall! This was the last incomplete Ancient Times wonder except the Great Library. Since none of my five known rivals had learned Literature yet, there would be no wonder cascades. My prebuild of Great Library was safe unless an unmet rival knew Literature.

My rivals seemed rather aggressive despite the "less aggressive" map setting I'd used. At this point the Aztecs were at war with Inca, and Arabia was at war with America. And in 670BC America declared war on me. She destroyed a Curragh but that was it for action in this war - she was too far away to reach me.

In 510BC I completed The Great Library! I did a bit of final pop rushing, expecting to learn Monarchy and begin a revolution inter-turn. As I mentioned earlier on this thread, the decision to go to Monarchy was a difficult one. I anticipated long and difficult wars, an unusually high ratio of troops to cities, and few luxuries for some time. So Monarchy seemed a necessary choice.

In 490BC The Great Library gave me many secrets: all Ancient tech except Republic! As planned I began my revolution.

Amusingly, after paying America 80g for peace in 490BC, I was able to sell her Currency for 39gpt + 230g :)

I had 16 Chariots built by this date. Having learned Horseback Riding I immediately upgraded them to Mounted Warriors.

In 450BC I learned Feudalism from the Great Library.

In 410BC I became a Monarchy and opened this thread. Phew, I'm finally caught up to the beginning of the story :lol:

It was time to plan for my first serious war. This seems a good breakpoint, I'll continue the story in my next post.
 
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