Some thoughts on Spain

noncognosco

Warlord
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
229
Location
North Carolina
I am still working on playing through a game with each civ. Right now I am playing with Spain and finding it actually a lot of fun. I kind of assumed that Spain would be the worst of the DLC civs because nothing that they had really appealed to me and the UA seems so situational. But actually I think Spain has succeeded more than any other civ in the game at forcing me to play differently than I normally would, which is the most important indicator of a really good civ.

1. The gold bonus for finding Natural Wonders forces you to be an explorer. The incentive is so strong that my first three builds in this game were three scouts. I have never had more than one at a time before and normally only use that one until it gets killed by barbs.

2. The bonus for having Natural Wonders in your borders forces you to expand quickly to make sure you get that city site. Normally if I miss out on a good site I do not worry too much because I can always settle an equivalent site somewhere else and then later take the good site by conquest. But the Natural Wonders are so scarce that they are essentially irreplacable. I also tend not to expand before NC even after the last patch, but in my Spanish game I was up to 3 cities before Writing.

3. At least on a Terra map, which I used for maximum advantage of the UA, the key beeline is Astronomy. Cross the seas and find those remaining wonders before anyone else. Again, the UA forces you to explore and expand much more than I would normally do.

Another thing: the last patch really buffed Spain in a lot of indirect ways. The nerf to Longswords means that the Spanish UUs, which are both in about the same era as LS, become relatively stronger. Also, the reduced gold you now get from selling luxuries now means that Spain can easily become the richest civ in the early game and can leverage that early gold to great advantage (in my case I bought a worker before turn 5).

Final thought: The Inca were already one of my favorite civs so I am now ready to declare the Spain/Inca DLC to be by a wide margin the best so far.

Discuss.
 
I always try to get out an early trireme or two as well, barrier reef and krakatoa are a huge bonus if you can get them early.
 
Actually, the Tercio is a powerhouse now that it is stronger than longswords. It already wrecked knights with ease. Of course, it still suffers from being a musket-replacement that is more expensive to build.
 
I always try to get out an early trireme or two as well, barrier reef and krakatoa are a huge bonus if you can get them early.

Yeah in my current game I found the GBR on the New World continent and there is nobody anywhere around, not even a CS. Can't wait to get both tiles within my borders.
 
I like Spain but a few things bother me.

1. Tercio's bonus against horses doesn't get a lot of burn. Coming slightly later then knights, you're really only left with a bonus vs the few cavalry and lancers that might pop up. Most armies are composed primarily of Rifles and Cannons by then.

2. Conquistadors ability to found cities on other continents is interesting but: The happiness and social policy models of this Civ really make this ability far less interesting and useful. In Civ 4 or Civ 3, these guys might have been used to really turn the course of the game. In Civ 5 you *might* settle 1-2 cities if you find great spots.

3. The UA: It is either game changing or goes unused. I feel like it would be better if natural wonders were more prevalent (I'd like to see at least 50% more Natural Wonders on each map size) and less likely to spawn under city states (I swear it feels like almost every Natural wonder I find is in a CSs 3 hex radius every game). To compensate for these changes, I feel like the free gold should be cut from 500 to 250. Also, they need to patch the gold bonus so that it is adjusted for game speed. 500 free gold on marathon is not equal to 500 gold on standard speed. If that change is not going to be made, then perhaps it would be better to increase the amount of gold they get from natural wonders that have already been discovered. 100 gold just doesn't impact the game enough for when many of those discoveries come.
 
2. Conquistadors ability to found cities on other continents is interesting but: The happiness and social policy models of this Civ really make this ability far less interesting and useful. In Civ 4 or Civ 3, these guys might have been used to really turn the course of the game. In Civ 5 you *might* settle 1-2 cities if you find great spots.

Didn't mention it in the OP but I think this is another way in which Spain has been buffed in the last patch. The impact of founding a new city on your SP costs is low fairly small, especially if you take the policy in Liberty (I forget what it is called) before you start to really expand. Similary, I have found happiness to be easier to manage since the patch. Before, I tried to avoid settling new cities unless they were really awesome spots. Now I find that I can settle at decent spots and still get ahead.
 
Amen to everything here on Spain. Agree with everything being said in the OP. I would add that the Trireme becomes a must-build for Spain. They have a coastal bias and you usually can put out an early trireme (built or bought) and find the Rock of Gibraltar or the mother of all cash wonders, the Great Barrier Reef (+1000 :c5gold:).

One crazy powerful Spain strategy I found is to use your wonder cash to buy early allies with, boosted by Medieval level bonuses.

First, do a GL / Civil Service or Theology slingshot. You can time the GL build to the opening up of either tech. Get the free tech and end up in the Medieval era. If you have found a couple wonders, you can have 1000 - 1500 :c5gold: in your pocket. Use them, plus any :c5gold: from selling luxuries to get 3-4 early CS allies - preferably cultural. That gives you +36 early culture (plus your own) and lets you rip through Patronage really fast. Before the Renaissance you can be getting free great people, science, and tons of resources from these allies.
 
in short, spain sucks. unless we play on a small map for the natural wonders.

The point is that they are a technical civ. They are different from civs like France which get no brainer 2 culture & Musket with higher strength etc. They need technique to maximise benefits from their strengths. However they suck at earth map small or standard because there are hardly 2-3 natural wonders while other maps of same size get 3-4 natural wonders.
 
I've noticed that the conquistador doesn't get any penalties for attacking a city.

Is this new?

This is not new. They also get extra sight, can defend against ships & can also create cities on other continents. This makes them ideal for invading backward civs on another landmass. They are also stronger than LS making them unbeatable if used properly.
 
I hate spain because I play on standard maps and never find natural wonders and if I do they are too far away. Spain does suck.
 
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