Space Race

[sir_schwick]

This bridges the gap between the ground and Alpha Centauri. It also stops Civ from reducing billions of dollars and decades of research into one medium-sized wonder and a stupid and easy way to win the game.

Because of its size, it will be seperated into multiple posts.

Introduction:
The space race of the 1960s and 70s were huge investments of government, scientific, and industrial efforts. Currently in Civ 3 the space race is reduced to a small wonder that is only 600 shields. Other than allowing the construction of an advanced interstellar craft, it is meaningless. This new model will add depth and serious developement time. The results are all the rewards of satellites, fame, and the pushing the bounds of 'the final frontier'. The rest of my idea is split into categories, for easier reference. They are first listed below.

 

[sir_schwick]

Small Wonders - These represent actual major facilities involved with Space Programs.
Development Programs - Before coming out with successful rocket models, many crashed and burned. These development programs are built, like small wonders, but only produce the research necessary to build more advanced rockets and other vehicles. Space Missions can help speed the production of these programs. This will be discussed in greater detail under 'Missions.
Facilities - THere are a few facilities for the production of space craft components.
Units - This category covers all the units you will be able to build as result of your research.
Missions - This covers how missions work and what the benefits are.
Espionage - Considering the importance of the technology, expect a lot of spycraft.
Alpha Centauri - This covers how this game winner will now work.

 

[sir_schwick]

Launch Facility - Requires 'Space Flight' - Allows you to launch one mission a year.
Secondary Launch Facility - Requires Shuttle and Space Agency - Allows you to launch an additional mission each year. Cannot be built in same city as Launch Facility.
Advanced Launch Facility - Requires 'Space Flight' and 'Robotics' and Space Agency - Allows you to launch three missions a year. Required for certain advanced missions.
Monolith Launch Facility - Requires Successful Mission to Mars and 100 missions - Allows you to launch five missions a year.
Spaceport - Requires Space Command HQ and 500 missions - Allows you to launch eight missions a year.
Advanced Spaceport - Requires 500 missions from an Advanced Launch Facility or better - Allows you to launch thirteen missions a year.
Space Agency - Requires 'Space Flight' - Allows missions to generate Gold, additional Science, and Culture. Allows Collaboration between your and foreign Space Agencies. Acts instantly like a tourist attraction.
Space Command HQ - Requires 500 successful missions and at least the Advanced Launch Facility - Increases efficiency of missions and mission success rates. Decreases development costs and increases espionage effort success. Allows for construction and research of military spacecraft and programs once the technology is avaliable. Also required to make progress on the Interstellar Delivery System(Alpha Centauri).

 

[sir_schwick]

There are three types of developmental programs, Orbital, Extra-Orbital, and Military.

Orbital Development - These programs are single efforts and most have a shield costs similair to modern era wonders.
Extra-Orbital - These programs are for missions to the Moon or other Planets. They have many more issues to deal with then standard missions in Earth orbit. Each of these problems will have its own development program.
Military - These programs are very advanced and require much stouter materials and technology then just exploration. The purpose is to protect the bounties of space from others and actively destroy their craft and satellites.

Orbital Programs
Small Rockets - Requires Launch Facility - These rockets will allow for short one-man missions or small satellites.
Large Rockets - Requires Launch Facility and Small Rockets - These rockets will boost most satellites, multi-man missions, and is the base for ICBMs(different topic).
Shuttle - Requires 'Synthetic Fibers', 'Robotics', Space Agency, Launch Facility and Large Rockets - Allows you to build reuseable space craft which are great for servicing and installing satellites.
Advanced Satellites - Requires Space Agency, Launch Facility, 'Robotics', 'Synthetic Fibers', and 'Satellites' - Allows you to make the next generation of satellites including projects like the Hubble Space Telescope and modern spy satellites.
Interplanetary Probes - Requires Space Agency, Launch Facility, Large Rockets, 'Satellites', and 'Computers' - Allows you to build basic planetary probes, which will allow you to conduct probe missions to other planets and moons.
Advanced Interplanetary Probes - Requires Space AGency, Launch Facility, Interplanetary Probes, 'Robotics', and 'Synthetic Fibers' - Allows you to build fully automated research probes, a lot like the Mars Rover.
Basic Spacestation - Requires Space Agency, Launch Facility, Large Rockets, 'Satellites', and 'Computers' - Allows you to build basic space station parts. Think of Mir.

Advanced Spacestation: Requires Basic Spacestation. Allows for construction of a comprehensive, multi-purpose space station.
A) Power - The power needs of a modern space station are much greater then the smaller, earlier version.
B) Science Pods - These pods are state-of-the art and desinged to be modular.
C) Life Support - The life support needs of asronauts on a station are much different then shorter missions.
D) Docking - Air and fuel exchange are now very important for long-duration orbit.

Moon Delivery System: Requires Space Agency, Launch Facility, 'Computers', and 'Synthetic Fibers'. Allows for construction of a system that will land men on the moon.
A) Giant Rockets - Required to launch the very large Delivery system that is required to reach the moon.
B) Lunar Lander - Required to land on the moon and eventually take back off.
C) Life Support - Life support needs are different for a trip to the moon then orbital flights.

Extra-Orbital Systems

Mars Delivery System: Requires successfull Moon Mission, 'Superconductor', 'Genetics', and Advanced Launch Facility. Allows for construction of a system that will land men on Mars and bring them back. Programs for landing on the Mars moons can be researched once the Mars mission is successful.
A) Orbital Construction - The massive size of the system will prevent it from being launched from the ground. Parts will be shipped up and assembled in orbit.
B) Advanced Propulstion - The distances involved make super-efficient and powerful engines a necessary reality.
C) Long Term Life Support - The mission time, estimated four years each way, will make it impossible to pack the necessary supplies.
D) Mars Lander - Mars has an atmosphere, unlike the moon. A much larger and more powerful lander must be used so the astronauts can lift off.
E) Refeuling Satellites - To save the feul load needed initially, several refeulling probes will be sent to Mars orbit. Once the Mars craft arrives, it will refeul and be prepared for the trip home.
F) Power - The nuclear reactors used to power the long-distance probes are not sufficient enough to power the massive Mars ship. Because of the increases size, much more design will have to be utilized for safe use.
G) Radiation Shielding - Long distance probes did not have to support life. The Mars ship will have to carry men beyond the protection of the Earth's Van Allen belt and into much greater radiation.

Venus Delivery System: Requires successful mission to Mars. Allows for construction of a system that will land men on Venus and bring them home. Programs for landing on the Venus moons can be researched once the Venus mission is successful.
A) Venus Lander - Venuses hot, acidic atmosphere will require a whole new set of materials and paradigms.
B) Radiation Shielding - The closer you get to the sun, the more heat and radiation that will bombard the ship.

Mercury Delivery System: Requires successful mission to Mars. Allows for construction of a system that will land men on Mercury and bring them home.
A) Mercury Lander - Mercury's heat backed surface is not very friendly to visitors.
B) Radiation Shielding - Mercury's relative proximity to the sun presents huge dangers for astronauts.
C) Advanced Propulsion - Mercury is close enough to the sun that escaping the sun's gravity becomes a legitimate concern.

Saturn Delivery System: Requires successful mission to Mars. Allows construction of a system that will take men to the rings and atmoshpere of Saturn. Programs for landing on the Saturn moons can be researched once the Saturn mission is successful.
A) Advanced Power - The farther you get from the sun the less radiation shielding you need. However, that same radiation often provides power, so long distance treks require advancements in renewable and sustainable power.
B) Advanced Life Support - This trek is a massive step in life support from even the Mars mission.
C) Advanced Propulsion - The increase in module size and distances involve require a new generation of high-power engines.
D) Advanced Construction - The stresses of Saturn's atmosphere will tear many spacecraft to pieces.

Jupiter Delivery System: Requires successful mission to Saturn. Allows for construction of a system that will take men into Juipter's atmoshpere and back home again. Programs for landing on the Jovian moons can be researched once the Jupiter mission is successful.
A) Advanced Life Support - This trek extends many more AU past the Saturn mission.
B) Advanced Propulsion - Besides distance, the gravitational stress between Jupiter and its sixteen moons force starships to have manueverability as well as distance capability.
C) Advanced Construction - Once again gravitational stress will challenge engineers who want to keep the ship as light as possible.

Uranus Delivery System: Requires successful mission to Jupiter. Allows for construction of a system that will take men into Uranus's atmosphere and back home. Programs for landing on the Uranus moons can be researched once the Uranus mission is successful.
A) Advanced Life Support - This trek extends many more AU past the Jupiter mission.
B) Advanced Propulsion - It take a lot of fuel to propel a multi-ton spacecraft this far from Earth. Engineers would like to reduce that fuel need.

Neptune Delivery System: Requires successful mission to Uranus. Allows for construction of a system that will take men onto Neptune's surface and back off. Programs for landing on the Neptunian moons can be researched once the Neptune mission is successful.
A) Advanced Life Support - This trek extends many more AU past the Uranus mission.
B) Advanced Propulsion - It take a lot of fuel to propel a multi-ton spacecraft this far from Earth. Engineers would like to reduce that fuel need.
C) Neptune Lander - Landing technology is pretty standard by this point, but each system must be custom tailored for the planet it is landing on.

Pluto Delivery System: Requires successful mission to Neptune. Allows for construction of a system that will take men onto Neptune's surface and back off.
A) Advanced Life Support - This mission takes you to the edge of solar system.
B) Advance Propulsion - Once again, feul needs are so great that even advanced engines have trouble.
C) Advanced Power - The reactors developed for the Saturn mission are not efficient enough for this voyage.
D) Pluto Lander - By this point the lander systems are very sophisticated.

Planet Colony Base Project: Requires successful mission to planet that base will be built on. Once the development marked * is finished, you can then research the System necessary for each unique planet or satellite of the planet. You also must have landed on that planet with men. I will not mention programs for moons, becaue their are a plethora(Saturn has 5, Jupiter has 16, etc.)
*Advanced Life Support - Even compared to the multi-year planet expeditions, the life support systems of a planetary base requires massive improvements and self-sustainability.
*Advanced Construction - These facilities will be much larger then any space craft built before.
*Advanced Propulsion - Due to their size, these facilities will have to be flown to their destination in many pieces. Even then the size of the modules will require more powerful engines then currently exist.
Moon Base - The Moon's relative proxmity to Earth and the existence of orbital support facilities make this mission much easier. It is still no walk in the park, but will provide many lessons needed to go further from Earth. Required for any other bases.
Mars Base - This is the second easiest base to establish. It is near to the Earth and has a relatively moderate surface conditions. It also has less gravity to overcome.
Mercury Base - The shielding needs of a planetary base are much greater then even those of a visiting spacecraft. That and problems with exposure to sun flares and solar gravitation.
Venus Base - The surface of Venus is very harsh and hot. Environmental backlash is considerable and forces us to desing systems for much longer periods without resupply.
Saturn Station - Because Saturn is a gas giant, landing on the surface would be impossible. Instead we can launch and maintain a large support and research facility at various altitudes. This station will help repair and refeul ships on their way further out.
Jupiter Station - LIke Saturn, Jupieter is a gas giant. It is also plagued by harsh climatic conditions and a lot more gravity.
Uranus Station - Like Saturn and Jupiter, Uranus is a gas giant. It is slightly milder, but much further from Earth.
Neptune Base - The long distances involved, especially from the sun force a heavier reliance on non-solar energy.
Pluto Base - This is the farthest you will go from Earth before leaving the solar system. Once you have mastered the technology of sustaining a facility this far out, going to foreign star systems can now be considered a researchable goal.

 

[sir_schwick]

There are not many new facilities, but a couple that are required for massive purpose of space-craft construction.

Rocket Works - This is required to build any Systems utilizing Large Rockets.
Space Technology Complex - This is required to build any Systems utilizing Giant Rockets.

 

[sir_schwick]

A spacecraft is a combination of several parts. For all delivery systems that go no further then the moon, and probes, they are one-piece units. For the delivery systems for other planets and non-Terran moons you launch the pieces seperately and they are assembled in Earth orbit. The cost of pieces is usually between 100 and 300 shields. The expensive part in civ terms was the development, although in reality launching is expensive. I've sorted all pieces/systems by booster type.

Small Rockets - These systems will not put much into space, but helps generate public support. It can put one-man orbiters, tiny satellites and primative electronic satellites into orbit.


Large Rockets - These systems are the workhorse of your space program for everything but landing men outside Earth orbit. They launch any satellite, probe, or in orbiters that are manually controlled(2-4 men orbiters, shuttles). They also can launch Base Resupply pods, and Orbiter Feul pods.

Giant Rockets - These systems are used to take the Moon system to the moon. It also launches each of the components of planet landings or bases. Except for the moon system(which is constructed as a 400 shield unit), the rest have to have certain pices be launched into orbit and assembled there. Any man-piloted craft requires these systems: Propulsion, Feul, Life Support, Body(includes Power). Any craft that is landing men(even to rotate men at a base) needs a Lander. Any craft establishing a base needs a Base Constructor and the Base Supply. Base Supply can also be its own componenta nd the mission can jsut be resupply, although Resupply probes are much better suited to this.

 

[sir_schwick]

The real meaty portion of the space program, the reason you invest so much into sending astronauts into space. First I will describe the rewards for successful missions, provided you have a space agency. Each mission could generate culture in your civ, based on the mission it could be the place that launched the mission(launch Facility) or all your cities. The same goes for gold, happiness, research. If it is the first mission of its kind ever successfully completed, you get 10x the normal bonus. If it is the first mission your program successfully completes, you get 2x. THese two bonuses don't add up if you are the first to, reach the moon say. Also, each time you launch a mission it contributes a certain amount of shields to certain development programs. There is a limit on how many shields a development program can get from missions, raning from 10 to 50 percent. Here is short list of missions you can do, provided you have the appropriate spacecraft built/assembled.

Launch Small Orbiter - There are a couple types of orbiters, but they are pretty insignificant and count more as a status symbol, like Sputnik.
Luanch Man-piloted Orbiter - There are a few sizes of these, and they mostly contribute to shuttle and Moon System research.
Luanch Satellite - There are many types of satellites and this mission puts one of them into orbit.
Repair Satellite - Satellites sometimes have trouble and need fixing. This mission turns out a lot better if you use a Shuttle instead of an orbiter.
Launch Long-Distance Probe - Probe missions will take many years to reach their destination. Pretty neccessary if you ever hope to get beyond Earth orbit.
Launch Mission-to-blank - This sets you on your way to land on surface x and come back. Except for the moon, this will take many years.
Launch Non-Earth Satellite - This launches satellites to orbit another planet or moon. Usually used for Feul Pods and Supply Pods, which help long-distance voyages be more successful.
Launch Non-Man Lander - This launches a lander such as the Mars Rover to go and land someone. Except for Moon, many years.
Launch Pod Lander - This launches a pod, usually supply, to a base. Many years.
Launch blank-Colonizer - This is big daddy, the mission to colonize a surface other than Earth. Many Years.

 

[sir_schwick]

You guys help me decide.

 

[sir_schwick]

This is another generation of technology, so you guys help me out.

 

[Elgalad]

Not sure what you mean by bridging the gap, is this the proposal for a new game separate from CIV and SMAC? If so, I like the proposals you have outlined. It's clear you have put a lot of thought and effort into this.

If I misunderstood though and this is an extension to the Civilization game itself, I'd have to say it's overly complex. That isn't necessarily a bad thing in my book, but you have to realize some folks might be pretty put off after spending all that time advancing their civs from the dawn of history to the modern era under one set or rules to just set those aside and begin a whole different game altogether.

In either case, I admire the work you've put into this. I've always felt the space race (in all 3 games) was somewhat of a let down/anticlimax. On the other hand, Master of Orion's victory dance after conquering the Guardian was disappointing too. Maybe it's just the thought that Ack, it's over already?

-Elgalad

 

[croxis]

I agree, for civ this is way to complex. I just skimmed through most of this (and it would make a great stand alone game), but I think if you could simplify this at fit it better intot he context of civ it would be quite sucessful.

 

[sir_schwick]

Actually after posting it I was thinking the same thing about complexity. One way to simplify it could be to make all the various misssions just wonders(include moons though) and forget about resupply missions. You could have a SW for the GPS satellites, Spy Satellites, Commercial, Moon Landing, all the other landings, the probes(all of them, make it a requiesite of aldning) and finally the bases. The big things lost their would be the rich cultural and scientific rewards from doing missions, but you're probably right that this adds another era of gameplay.

Mostly I proposed this so it made sense where the technology for the Alpha Centauri craft came from. If you could work your way to the AC craft after putting bases on all the planets by the time limit, that would be a worthy victory. Especially since that effort would have to be cooperative most likely. Any suggestions on simplification are welcome.

 

[Elgalad]

Maybe the Apollo program itself (first manned rocket?) shouldn't give a benefit of automatic world visibility, but rather launching satellites would do that. I think SMAC did this aspect pretty well, using weather/agricultural satellites (increased food), commercial satellites (increased gold income), and military satellites (SDI or weapons in their own right). Add a few more: Spy satellites to eliminate fog of war in a 20 square area and/or allow more visible opponent's city information without espionage costs, GPS satellites speed unit movement in ocean travel and hostile territory, telescope and space station satellites that increase research by adding lightbulbs to the civilization's total. Building all of these and successfully launching them (with some chance of failure!) might add their bonus to not only your civ, but Allies as well. Satellites might be considered small wonders or just very expensive military units constructed by only those cities - with the launch site(s) you mentioned. Three or Four great wonders - First unmanned rocket, first manned orbit, first moon landing, first mars base and then the rest as small wonders might work too. Any nations should still be able to compete in the space race provided they have the tech. The great wonders give bonuses to their developer, but dont eliminate the competition altogether.

-Elgalad

 

[sir_schwick]

The first American manned rocket was the Mercury, which was a one-man craft. Gemini came next with two men, and Apollo followed with three.

Satellite networks make a lot of sense, in my opinion. A few networks would allow special abilities each, especially spy.

I think there should be a way that big projects, like an ISS or landing on another planet should be international. Maybe there would be a special, split proudction mode, where a city from each civ can contribute to an international version of a project. Then each civ gains the same amount of goodies as they would have doing it on their own. Space AGency definitely involved.

I like the GW idea, since it rewards racing. AS for international GW, they belong ot the UN, or whatever organization exists, but gives their benefits to the donating parties.

Also, if you get behind in the space race, you can use espionage to try and catch up. Since the missions essentially give you the technical experience to know what to expect, you can steal those results and so forth. tHis reduces the cost of the program wonder by 2/3. Your chances of success are slightly reduced though.

I was hoping that total shield cost for missions out-side earth orbit would be at least 20,000 shields, so cooperation was encouraged.

 

[searcheagle]

I agree with the general consensus that this too complex and too different from the working of civ to be included. That being said, a few of the ideas could be added to make the Space/Modern age of Civ improved, such as spy satellites.

 

[dh_epic]

I like the ideas here, even if there's a little "too much" A little less complexity and we'd have something.

But just another thought:

The space race should really be a divergence from the main tech tree. As it stands now, as you pursue technology that would help you in your expansion and domination, you pick up the stuff necessary to win the space race along the way. In other words, space is an inevitability, a necessity provided by the natural need to improve your society, your military, and your economy.

I'd like to see space be more of an offshoot. Have you ever heard people say "Who the heck cares about space? We need to worry about what's going on in our own borders!!" Well people say it. All the time. And there's a good reason -- it costs money and funding and research beyond what we do normally. Sure some of what we research to help us on earth applies, but a lot of space research is its own self-contained project.

To make a long story short, it would be neat if you had to research like 3 dead-end techs to be able to win the space race... as if gunning for the space race slows you down for the other stuff. And ignoring the space race will make you more economically sound, more militaristically sound.

 

[sir_schwick]

That is still too little effort to win the game, since many players are reaching AC by 1700 currently. Maybe if it was simialir to another era of research, since the technology needed would be somewhat futuristic(not the next 20 years).