Spanish UB Question

[Cookie Crumbs]

Cothons replace Harbours, and they don't go obsolete. They're also slightly more expensive, can't remember how much.

 

[Antilogic]

it sure would be. but conqs don't replace knights now. they replace cuirassiers (or however you spell the gunpowder/mil trad required unit between knights and cavs).

If you take a look when I originally posted that (roughly 13 months ago), you would see that BtS wasn't even announced yet (or if it was, it wasn't released). The Conquistador, when that was posted, did replace knights, but now replaces the new cavalry unit.

Cothons cost an extra 20 hammers, and give an additional trade route over harbors.

@TheDS: In BtS, the AI is much more competent at launching a naval invasion. I had a modern war when an AI massed a cross-continental invasion that consisted of 6 battleships, 10 destroyers, and 7 fully loaded transports: marines, tanks, infantry, SAM, artillery, the whole deal. It was an amazing fight...

 

[TheDS]

Sounds glorious! I suppose part of my problem is that I pretty much haven't played higher difficulty than even-steven, and I tend to emphasize science and production - I'm a firm believer in quality = quality, as opposed to quantity = quality, but that's mostly from seeing the AI, with 1/3 as many cities, have 10 times as many units as me. Having better units is my only defense.

With the toning down of the ridiculous AI freebies, I anticipate moving up to a higher difficulty level, but it still takes most of the game before I feel I'm powerful "enough". I honestly don't know how people come up with "the AI attacked my 100-unit stack with a 200-unit stack and had reserves" claims - I probably don't build 100 units in an entire standard-level game, but I digress. Fact is, I'm not as good as I want to be, but I've gotten some good time in recently, and I'm getting better.

 

[Antilogic]

It depends on the map size. I am accustomed to small maps, but even still my Industrial Age wars will see armies of ~40-60 units battling it out. The earlier you fight, obviously, the fewer units you'll have. On a standard map, it is not uncommon for me, towards the end of the game, to have over 100 active units if I have been building up and not losing much for awhile.

Some guys turn off the Time victory and amass troops for centuries past 2050 before fighting.

 

[magicalsushi]

Regarding the bonus trade route from the Citadel, I thought all castles gave a bonus trade route anyway? If so, you can't really claim it as part of the Citadel's specific benefit. It's true that you'd be more likely to want to build a Citadel than a castle, so in practice they'll give you more trade routes, but in principle you could get the same effect from castles if only they were worth building in their own right.

I liked Spain in Warlords. Isabella suited my playstyle. Of course, I'm really bad at the game, so this certainly doesn't indicate that she's a decent leader, but I got on well with her. I'd have preferred industrious instead of expansive, but I love spiritual. If you grab some stone beeline to her UB, it arrives on the scene at exactly the moment when I've satisifed most of my lame 'builder' tendancies and started preparing to take out a neighbour. You also get the UU at about the same time; for a while, you're unstoppable. It goes without saying that you delay getting economics for as long as possible. Churn out a supply of siege weapons while running vassalage and theocracy (thank you, spiritual trait!) and keep them for later, then go ahead and grab economics.

It's a shame that both the UU and the UB got nerfed in BtS. The UU is a bit of a joke now (now you see it, now you don't!), and the UB suffers from the siege weapon nerf. Expansive has been given a slight boost (in the form of massive late-game health penalties, which it helps to make up for), but all in all Spain have gone from barely average to terrible.

 

[Antilogic]

I've actually found experience on siege equipment harder to come by, and thus am liking the Spanish UB more. It would just be nice if that experience bonus did not obsolete so quickly...

The castles do provide trade bonuses anyway, but, as you pointed out, you are more likely to build your UB than a castle, which I build maybe once a game, if that.

I've considered adjusting the Conquistador UU, because it now replaces a different unit (maybe +25% vs. melee and first strikes or additional withdrawal chance), but haven't really decided on it yet.

 

[King of Town]

wow this is an old thread. I agree with the though of building one or two citadels and just rushing a lot of cat's treb's. You can put off ecomincs for a while especially if you don't mind missing out on the free great merchant. I've never played the spanish since my very first game of civ 4 though. Witha lot fo the civs that give mid game UU's I generally won't start my warring until then, preferring to just build my infrastructure, and take my time. In this case they sort of both go hand in hand. You can build seige until you get the conquistador, and then get economics for extra money and go to war. Sounds like a plan.

 

[Antilogic]

I originally posted this back when I doing a Warlords game. I've only played Spain in Vanilla, and might give them a try again after I finish some of my current games.