Starting locations, how are they created ?

Johan^^

Warlord
Joined
Jan 9, 2007
Messages
201
Hello. I am just wondering how starting locations are generated. In the last copple of BTS games, i´ve recieved what other might call insane starting locations. See the two pictures below.

Civ4ScreenShot0005.JPG


Civ4ScreenShot0006.JPG


I just reloaded the second after I took a screen shot.

Does anyone know how it is created ?
To me it just seem stupid to get mass foodplains and even gold, fish, clam etc. :crazyeye:
 
If I have that many floodplains I always try to split them up among 2 or 3 cities. You won't be working them all for a long time, and that's some pretty serious unhealthiness.

As for how start tiles are generated, there's several steps:
remove bad features (jungle, ice)
remove bad terrain (tundra, desert, peaks)
try to add fresh water if needed
try to ensure at least 3 hills, adding them if possible
try to ensure at least 3 2F1H tiles, converting plains to grass-forests if possible
check for food (1 land or 2 seafood, generally)

Then, if the spot is not at least 80% as good as the best start, it does some more:
add forests (this bit is bugged, and adds forests to all possible non-resource tiles leading to the familiar buried-in-forests starts that BtS is famous for)
add resources until you reach the 80% threshold or 2*seafood + 3*land_resources >= 12 (note that because of the forest-spam bug, it's often impossible to add land resources; thus some over-forested starts are terrible, and some get tons of seafood because that's the only thing that can be added)

I'm not sure if floodplains are measured in the "goodness" measure, or if it's just resources. But I'd say in both your starts you just happened to have all the floodplains, and in the second one the seafood was probably added in the last step.

peace,
lilnev
 
I've been getting a lot of starts with peaks in the fat cross. It's annoying.

Unlucky you. Never happened to me, and I thought it wasn't even possible.
 
Trv016 said:
I've been getting a lot of starts with peaks in the fat cross. It's annoying.

Kate said:
I think certain maps can generate it. Does it start forested? (Mine do when I get them.)

Peaks are certainly not permitted in any of the normal starting map scripts - was this a weird type like fantasy?

Peaks are also never supposed to be forested (though I have seen a couple of bugged ones with forests as well in vanilla - not sure what causes that).
 
I think BTS has a better way of choosing starts, since I almost always get a phenomonal start. My current game as HC, my capital had 2, count 'em, 2 Silver mines in my BFC (one being beside a river) and if that isn't enough if was also beside a river and hade wheat and deer. Obviously, I was a teching machine (and I also got two techs from goodie huts). It almost feels like cheating...
 
Peaks are certainly not permitted in any of the normal starting map scripts - was this a weird type like fantasy?

Peaks are also never supposed to be forested (though I have seen a couple of bugged ones with forests as well in vanilla - not sure what causes that).
IIRC, it only happens on Island starts with hotseat teams...I have BtS. I'll see if I can get a screenie/save for you later. (I'm running Bhruic's patch & BUG right now, but this has been happening ever since I got BtS. I remember noticing it because I thought it was really odd and kind of pointless to forest a mountain.)
 
IIRC, it only happens on Island starts with hotseat teams...I have BtS. I'll see if I can get a screenie/save for you later. (I'm running Bhruic's patch & BUG right now, but this has been happening ever since I got BtS. I remember noticing it because I thought it was really odd and kind of pointless to forest a mountain.)

I've had that happen on island starts in SP. At least you get a health bonus from forested peaks.
 
Is there any possibility of this forest-in-BFC bug being fixed in upcoming patches? It's annoying and sets back your development more than you think, because of lack of resources and all the time forcibly spent chopping.
 
The first site I consider horrible - so much unhealthiness you'll won't be able to work more than a few tiles for an awfully long time. -4 healthy *after* you hookup the cows and if you don't chop any of the forests? You're size 1 and already suffering from unhealthiness.

The second site is freakin' crazy-good. If anything screams "caste-system GP farm" like that site, I don't know what does. The fact that it gave you FOUR healthy resources on your opening screen (not all in the BFC) counters the flood plains, and the gold just makes your teching through to get Caste System that much easier.
 
The map type that generated the peaks in the fat cross was an Archipelago on BTS (with 3.13 and Bhruic's Patch). And no, they were not forested.
 
The staring positions he got whas a reeload nobrainer.

It's funny that I nearly always settle for whatever the prng gives me in the BFC. It's when I look a few squares beyond my BFC I discover whether my position is really junk.
 
I actually would have prefered to start sligthly away from both of those locations and have my first expansion in the start locations vicinity. Why? Massive unhealth + lack of production.
 
I think ideal starting position should have at least 1 good food source and 2 gold, silver or gems on hills. You need the gold,silver or gem to tech quicker than the AI. The sooner you get BW or IW, the sooner you can start your warmongering. I consider strong production cities with a few foodplains as the best starting location.
 
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