Strategy: 5th century BC

[1889]

Our last strategy discussion focused our nations effort on building a valuable wonder. That effort is largly up to one city now so let us look once again at what our nation needs most and refocus our efforts on our next goal.

The fact that in 500 BC we can still run 100% science and only pay 6 gold per turn leads me to believe that we may have under expanded (it may also be that we need better civics too, but that is already being worked on.)

This is a difficult goal to plan for because I don’t know how to calculate the costs or determine when inflation will begin. However we will soon have the ability to build courthouses and will need 2 more cities if we want to consider the Forbidden palace.

In addition I would like to refocus on growing our populations and specializing our cities. I think Polynesia should switch to a granary and we should plan on expanding its borders with a missionary. I’m also weighting the benefits of building granaries in Sinsburge and Chowderton.

The first step is to locate viable city sites.
Next we need a few more troops to secure them.
Then workers move in.
Finally we settle.

EDIT: These suggestions really stunk, so I removed them. Post #4 has much better suggestions.

(As a side note, it looks like this map has each civ connected only through a narrow land bridge)

 

[dutchfire]

move site 1 one tile south to get the clams?
We can't have 2, as there needs to be a gap of 2 tiles. (right?)
3 has got too much jungle to consider settling now, perhaps later, when we're backfilling.
When we have more workers, we can start thinking about cottage spamming that jungle.

 

[1889]

move site 1 one tile south to get the clams?
We can't have 2, as there needs to be a gap of 2 tiles. (right?)
3 has got too much jungle to consider settling now, perhaps later, when we're backfilling.
When we have more workers, we can start thinking about cottage spamming that jungle.

Ugh, I'll have to think about that then.

Site 1 and 2 will be on our front lines with Aloha and are our only source of an important military resource so I think the hill defense is more valuable for them than growth.

As for the jungle surrounding sites 4 and 5, I don't think it’s that big of a deal. I remember in civ 3 jungle took like 16 turns to chop but it only takes 4 turns now and as long as the tiles are improved as fast as the city grows you hardly even notice it.

 

[1889]

Looked at it again and found better spots. Because I don't really know the costs lets just settle the northern cities for now. After that we can decide if we are ready to expand further.

 

[Lord Parkin]

The fact that in 500 BC we can still run 100% science and only pay 6 gold per turn leads me to believe that we may have under expanded (it may also be that we need better civics too, but that is already being worked on.)

Not necessarily. And expansion just for the sake of using up GPT is not necessarily a good idea. Every city should be useful for something.

By the way, did we build the Hindu Shrine? That could be accounting for some of our extra GPT, perhaps.

This is a difficult goal to plan for because I don’t know how to calculate the costs or determine when inflation will begin.

In a normal game, inflation begins in 125 AD, I think. What is the difficulty level? The rate is difficulty dependent. (Most likely I think it'll be 100% though, since I doubt we're below Noble.)

In a normal speed game, corruption will stay at 0% for the first 120 turns. After that, it will increase by 0.3% per turn.

Until 125AD (turn 120), the percentage will be 0%.
In 1550AD (turn 220), the percentage will be 30%.
In 1900AD (turn 320), the percentage will be 60%.
In 2050AD (turn 460), the percentage will be 102%.
In 3050AD (turn 1460), the percentage will be 402%.

At settler difficultly level, the inflation is only 60% of normal. So
in 1550AD, it will be 18%, in 1900AD, it will be 36% and in 2050AD, it will be 61%. Inflation is at 100% at Monarch level and higher levels. At the higher difficulty levels, the AI pays less for inflation.

However we will soon have the ability to build courthouses and will need 2 more cities if we want to consider the Forbidden palace.

Bad idea to get the 2 extra cities just for the sake of the Forbidden Palace. Courthouses take quite a while to build, especially in low production cities, and then the Forbidden Palace isn't exactly a short build in itself. Plus, after all that effort, you really don't actually get much tangible benefit. In fact, I'd say that for the amount of hammers you'd be investing (eight Courthouses + Forbidden Palace) to save a mere few GPT, you're getting a very bad deal. Far better to focus those hammers on things we need - troops, workers, etc. I'd say to leave the build towards the Forbidden Palace until (much) later, when we're much more secure in our situation.

In addition I would like to refocus on growing our populations and specializing our cities. I think Polynesia should switch to a granary and we should plan on expanding its borders with a missionary.

Agree.

I’m also weighting the benefits of building granaries in Sinsburge and Chowderton.

Granaries are almost always highly beneficial (unless you don't have a lot of spare happiness to grow your cities).

Please let me know if you think we should place our focus elsewhere, but if you agree then lets begin looking at city locations. These are a few ideas to start with.

I think it's a wise idea to keep expanding our empire, but we still need to make every city count, and not just found for the sake of founding.

Site 1 – Horse and cow, on hill.

Reasonable. 1 south of that is also good (nets the clams too, the hill defensive bonus isn't absolutely important).

Site 2 – Horse and hills.

I don't like it. 1 east is better (still have all the resources, but have coastal access).

Site 3 – On coast w/ 3 hills.

Very bad city site. With no food we can't really utilise those hills to their full potential. You need at least one decent food resource per city.

Site 4 – 4 hills.

Also bad, for the same reason as Site 3.

Site 5 – Bananas, fresh water and coast

Ugh, all that Jungle will be a pain though. It'll take a fair investment of Worker time to fix up the site. Also, can we even use the Bananas yet (do we have Calendar)? If not then it's a fairly useless city location for now, since it can't really grow much.

(As a side note, it looks like this map has each civ connected only through a narrow land bridge)

Yep, although the fact that no-one seems to have met the other two teams seems to suggest that they might possibly be on a seperate land mass (who knows though). Incidentally, who made (or moderated) the map?

Site 1 and 2 will be on our front lines with Aloha and are our only source of an important military resource so I think the hill defense is more valuable for them than growth.

Possibly. Although if we actually want to win this game we'll need to be on the offence rather than the defence (if units start reaching our cities then we'll be starting to get screwed). So defensive values for cities will be of little importance.

As for the jungle surrounding sites 4 and 5, I don't think it’s that big of a deal. I remember in civ 3 jungle took like 16 turns to chop but it only takes 4 turns now and as long as the tiles are improved as fast as the city grows you hardly even notice it.

You still notice it, believe me. That site will be a major pain in the neck, and it will waste valuable Workers' time (they could be improving more profitable lands in the meantime).

Looked at it again and found better spots. Because I don't really know the costs lets just settle the northern cities for now. After that we can decide if we are ready to expand further.

I think that settling all three cities will badly hurt our economy as it is now. We still need to build a fair few more cottages, and allow them to grow before founding that many more cities. Founding just one though, and then checking up on how our economy is before deciding whether or not to found the second, would be a good idea IMHO.

In that case, I'd suggest that the top priority of the sites is probably Site 1 (or the tile 1 south of that). Site 3 might be best to found after that, to pull back the fog of the route to Site 1 so that we don't get hordes of barbs annoying us. Initially I didn't like the look of all the desert at Site 3, but considering the usefulness of the other tiles (flood plains for growth, then some nice hills for hammers), it might be quite good after all. Site 2 (or thereabouts) will be a decent future city site, but for now it's nothing special and will probably cost us more than it'll give us... let's wait before founding that one.

OK, that little essay concludes my thoughts for now.

 

[1889]

I'm not saying build them for the hell of it; I'm saying we can afford to build them (and if that turns out not to be the case we can build courthouses to bail us out). Right now our highest maintenance cost is 3 so courthouses curently do nothing for us.

Agreed the locations in the 1st post suck. Post 4 is much better, I'd be proud to rule a city in any of those spots.

Thanks for the mechanics, I'll try to work out some costs.

 

[Theoden]

I think site 3 in the last suggestion is best. If there's one thing I've learned about civ4, it is that early on cities with few good tiles are much better than for example a city with all grasslands but no resources. And the desert site has enough good squares to reach its happy cap at the moment, not mentioning the fact that it'll have the lowest maintenance of the suggested sites.

I tend to agree with Lord Parkin that we should be very careful about overexpanding. Let's secure those vital spots and then build all the adequate cities when we have the economy to make a benefit out of them.

Incidentally, who made (or moderated) the map?

Sirian did. And the map type is "anything should be expected".

 

[dutchfire]

Maybe another site south of the capital, to the east of Chowdertown?

 

[1889]

Here are the results of some world builder experiments to determine costs of the 3 city expansion plan pictured in post #4.

Site 3 will begin with an upkeep of 4, and will also add 1 gold to the upkeep of Magadan from the increase in number of cities.

Site 2 will require 6 gold for maintenance, and increase the upkeep of Sinsburg by 1 gold.

Site 1 will cost 7 gold and increase Wheelville’s upkeep by 1.

To balance these cost keep in mind the trade routes will add at least 1 gold, as will the spread of Hinduism. In addition each site will have citizens who can work commerce tiles and the populations of our other cities will be expanding as well.

Courthouses will be available for higher maintenance cities, which will also have the potential to become some of our most productive. And in a real emergency we have the option to reduce science to 90%.

 

[1889]

The tech trades and great people are going to very soon make us #2 if not the tech leader and our rapidly growing population is giving us a nice score jump every few turns. This will eventually draw the attention of other teams and could make us public enemy #1.

That is why I'd like to see us expand with three more cities, Horses and two more high production sites will make a valuable contribution to our power.

My plan is to have Sinsburg make another worker after it grows to size 3, Chowderton will give us another Axe to protect site 3 (in the desert north of Polynesia, and Ploughland will make missionaries to spread religion and expand the borders of Polynesia and our new cities. Chowderton will make a settler for site 3 after reaching pop 5. So something like 28 turns 'till our next city.

Also I just realized that the warrior along the coast south of Polynesia should probably just stay there as a sentry to give us early warning from Loco.

 

[dutchfire]

Sounds good.
I think it's crucial to make everyone think that Epsilon is public enemy number one.

 

[Theoden]

Sounds like a good plan.

Regarding Epsilon, it's hard to make them public enemy when neither we nor Aloha has met them, but if we start spreading hints around maybe something will happen...

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Warning: Newbie about to spout.

I agree that city site #3 is one of the worst imaginable.

I usually avoid courthouses until they hit a maintenance level of at least 6gpt. I don't think we have any city there yet. I agree that the benefits of the FP are minimal.

I highly encourage the campaign again Epsilon (That's Dave McW right?) I think with all four teams against him, he still may win. The guy is a Civ genius.

 

[1889]

I agree that city site #3 is one of the worst imaginable.

Then you don't have much imagination. *Bass, snare, high-hat*

Ok but seriously if we farm the floodplains we'll be able to put cottages on all those plains and mine the three hills, it is a solidly 'okay' city site. Most importantly, we have to work with what is available.

BTW I'm talking about site #3 from post #4, because the city locations in post #1 were lousy.