Substitution

[searcheagle]

Rammstein @How would this be too complex? The computer would handle the whole process. When the substitute material was found, the game would notify you that the resource was successfully substituted and that the new unit/improvement could be created. From then on out, it would be like any other unit.

Khift@ I know I can take over other civs to get the resources but does this actually improve the game any? It certainly does not help trade any by forcing you to be resource independent.

 

[socralynnek]

If every ressource could be substituted why having the ressource thing at all, if you don't need them, the idea was to have strategical important places you have to defend or have to conquer!

But I'm in favor of a new ressource system where the ressources are quantified instead of the have or have not system!

 

[Denarr]

Anything can be replaced if you go without the resources long enough.

Even after the discovery of metallurgy, rocks were still used to cut. You could still have legions with rock weapons- the training, in addition to the equipment was what made them what they were.

All around the world, horses were replaced by whatever animals were around them to use for many resources.

Besides, as pointed out many times, this is not real life- this is civ and Civ doesn't follow real life. I feel something like this would add balance to the game.

Which was exactly the point I was trying to make.

Replacement materials for required resources would require using older materials (rocks, bronze) for the more modern materials that require resources that you don't have access to.

Synthetic oil, fine. As soon as you've researched synthetics.

Synthetic Iron, OK. As soon as you've researched Duralumin.

Synthetic Steel, sure. As soon as you've researched Computer Age Ceramics. (Or whatever they call the ceramics in engines and space shuttles.)

The only way to substitute for missing resources is to resort to the resources that had been used before (and the weaker units that use them) or research the technologies that actually replaced them on planet Earth.

 

[BassDude726]

You could link the time it takes to find a substitute resource to the scientific research funding. I think it's logical to assume that better-funded scientists would be able to create or discover a substitute resource faster than poor ones.

 

[searcheagle]

Finally- Supporters!

But the most important element of the substitution was that not ideal position to be in and would not minimize the importance of strategic resources.

 

[CiverDan]

Substitution is a complex issue, and depends on the resource, and the use. Khan mentioned the ability to make crude oil now, although its cost is high. True, we can. but how feasible is that on a large scale. I read that one plant can produce 100 barrels a day. To meet US needs, this would require 100,000 such plants. Its one thing to substitute on a small scale, but on a large scale is another matter.

 

[Hunter]

I have in my personal mod a system that works like this:

A unit like the tank needs the resource but several tech advancements later I do have a unit that is a light tank that costs ALOT more (more than modern armor). This unit lacks the stats to compete with the tank but is better than cavalry so it fills that roll. I do this mostly for visual reasons, I hate fighting cavalry and ancient units in the modern age. So I have altered my Industrial and modern ages to include "Substitution" units if for no other reason than it looks better. I meen look at third world nations they strap guns to pick up trucks and few "troops" on the ground dont have guns sold to them by companys or govenments. As for air units I do have a Substitution for Jets that only needs oil but is strictly visual and has the same stats as the Fighter. Air craft and Navys should not have in IMO many substitution's but ground units in the last two era's should if for no other reason than it looks better.

 

[NP300]

The way I would do this is that with a certain technology you could have the "synthetic oil plant" improvement become available. This improvement would make oil available to only that one city. We could also make a synthetic rubber plant available. Such plants could be given high upkeep values to reflect the high real life costs of synthetic oil and encourage the players to only do this as a last resort.

Both oil and rubber can be synthesized. Rubber is synthesized till this day and oil was synthesized by the Germans in WWII.

However I think other resources, like coal, cannot be synthesized. Iron and uranium (and I think aluminum) certainly cannot be synthesized as they are elements (although this may become possible with a future trasnsmutation tech). There may be inferior substitutes for them, like firewood instead of coal but no actual synthetic versions.

The idea of having a small wonder provide the resource to the whole civ may have merit but I think it would probably be better for gameplay to only allow plants to be built in individual cities and make them insanely expensive to build and maintain.

 

[Blackbird_SR-71]

NP2300 your idea is good but then whats the point in even putting it in the game if it is so expensive that it would be more economical to use military might. nobodies going to use it if it hurts their economy more than war does. but thats just my thought