Switching government twice?

[Optional]

Just switch once and stay there, is the commonly received advice, isn't it?
I usually want Republic as my government, but sometimes I can't get there quick. In my most recent game, as the Mayans on Pangaea, Demigod, I managed the Philosophy slingshot - not bad for a civ that doesn't start with Alphabet.
A couple of civs were up Polytheism, so I could trade for that, and grab Monarchy as my freeby. I wanted Republic, but switching to Monarchy was very attractive - there was a forest game in my core and several floodplains; my growth would benefit from removal of the Despotism penalty right there.

I couldn't resist the temptation and switched. I triggered my Golden Age with a Javelin Thrower a touch later, which helped me build the Hanging Gardens and lots of other stuff.
I didn't really use the Monarchy government as a war government; my wars were mainly phony wars. Mostly I built culture, including Copernicus, Sistine's, Bach's and Newton's.
Then I felt my research would get another boost if I were to switch again. Six turns of Anarchy later Republic shaved off about two turns of research for every tech.

Would you have switched twice you think?

 

[DWetzel]

I rarely double-switch (excluding religious civs, of course), but I think the situation you describe is a good reason to do so.

The only thing I wonder is if it might have made sense to wait even a bit longer and get Democracy instead?

 

[Optional]

In theory Democracy has a lower corruption, but the one time I tried it, I didn't notice it. I've seen some posts by other players as well, who claim Democracy doesn't work out as well as it should - corruption wise.
Once I read a post by MAS who claimed that only with a very specific spacing pattern you would benefit from lower corruption under Democracy.

If there are players with different experiences with Democracy I like to hear about it.

 

[Spoonwood]

I can't say I like the idea of a double switch (as a non-religious tribe) or really believe that it works out all that effectively. However, I can say that checking Tone's save for his standard Deity SS game with Sumeria he had Monarchy I think until the industrial ages and then went to Democracy. He launched in 1240 AD. Maybe he would have launched faster if he had gone to The Republic and stuck there, I don't know, but I don't see how two revolutions works out as better in general (unless playing as religious). I miss civ II where two revolutions much more clearly made sense.

 

[Another Civ Guy]

Can someone explain to me what the 'standard trade bonus' of Democracy and the Republic is? Unless it's something really good I can't see Republic or Democracy with an advantage over Monarchy, being unit support (aside from corruption, which can easily be combated with corthouses) but I usually play as Regent, so does that make a difference?

The reason for me liking Monarchy is it's unit support (2,4,8) is better than Democracy's and the Republic's.

But, back on topic I usually switch to Monarchy and stay there.

 

[Aabraxan]

The commerce bonus is: +1 commerce to every tile already generating at least 1 commerce. While it is true that Monarchy does provide somewhat better unit support, the commerce bonus usually offsets that, but that statement is partly based on the assumption that you are playing C3C, in which case Republic's unit support is 1/3/4. What version are you playing?

 

[Optional]

I like Republic for the quicker research. If you're going for Conquest or Domination, perhaps Monarchy is better - Republic has war weariness, and limited unit support - but for Diplomatic or Spaceship Republic is much more efficient due to the higher commerce that gets generated.
So it also depends on the type of game you want to play.

 

[Another Civ Guy]

I do play conquests, so republic is 1,3,4 instead of 0,0,0 in every other version. Since I like building roads I'll give Republic a try but I'm still not sure about Democracy as the unit support is, pathetic.

 

[capnvonbaron]

I typically play on middle levels, and monarch a bunch lately. I have to say that, if you can snag the Hanging Gardens, keeping the people happy through the middle ages becomes a * ton * easier, and one can spend more money on research or better yet, military to beat techs out of one's rivals. If I get a lux-poor start, I tend to beeline to monarchy asap, esp if I'm a religious tribe or manage to trade for or snag warriorcode and c.burial from a goodie hut. Of course, the religious ones you can make an easy second switch later if you want to, anyways, so why not just go monarch to begin with?

Thoughts?

 

[Aabraxan]

To be honest, I've never gotten around to trying Democracy. I find Republic plenty durable, and the unit support sufficient, for all warmongering short of an All-War situation. I rarely get a situation that is so lux-poor that a stack of swords won't cure the situation, so that doesn't bother me. What I don't want to do is to have 2 anarchies. Either I'll go Republic or I'll go Monarchy.

 

[Theov]

If the game is going to be won through war, I'll switch from Republic to Commie.

 

[Bllasae]

If the game is going to be won through war, I'll switch from Republic to Commie.

I would too.

 

[TheOverseer714]

I only switch out of Republic if I get crippling WW, otherwise it isn't worthwhile. I once had a game where the war weariness was so bad that my people were happier during the Anarchy period after I gave in and revolted. We Love The Revolutionary day is something you won't often experience.

 

[capnvonbaron]

We Love The Revolutionary day is something you won't often experience.

VIVA LA REVOLUCION!

 

[bjfrones]

Isnt unit support 2 pr. unit in Republic? Wont your army be very expensive in a republic then?
I see that my research gets faster when I change from Monarchy to Democracy (mostly because of commerce bonus, not because of less corruption), but I also get some civil disorder since I cant use military police. How many luxeries to you think you should have to use democracy? To avoid using too many entertainers?

 

[Aabraxan]

Yes, in C3C, unit support is 2gpt per unit over the limit and the support is 1/3/4. That's better than demo, which (IIRC), has unit support of 0/0/0. Republic can support plenty of military for a conquest game. As to democracy, I've never actually used it, so I'm going to leave that part of the question to someone who has.

 

[ecuwins]

C3C Democracy is 0/0/0 - however, units only cost 1 instead of 2. This looks nice late game when one might have many, many units. The thing is though, all those units do you no good when in Democracy. The War Wariness is so high that it is difficult to wage war effectively. Are there exceptions to this? Sure. 8 luxs + markets, throw in a Bach, a Michelangelo w/ some Cathedrals - you get the point

Personally, I am in the switch once unless Religious camp. I like to finish games fast/early so I never see the need for any government beyond Republic, and in rare cases Monarchy.

If I am Religious though, now, that's different. In some instances I will try a Monarchy slingshot, war my butt off, then switch to Republic when convenient. But that's still not the case always as Religious. If I find myself alone on a landmass, then I undoubtedly shoot for Republic.

 

[Optional]

Isnt unit support 2 pr. unit in Republic? Wont your army be very expensive in a republic then?

In Monarchy the free support is 2 units per town, 4 for a city, and you're paying only 1 gold per turn for a unit over the free support limit.
In Republic (Conquests) the free support is 1 unit per town, 3 for a city, and you're paying 2 gold per turn over the free support limit.
So if you only have towns, it's quite expensive to have units in Republic. It gets better if you have more cities. They automatically each support 3 units, but also, because more citizens are working, they're generating more commerce. And the extra gold can help you to research techs that you can sell to the AI to make even more money.

How many luxeries to you think you should have to use democracy? To avoid using too many entertainers?

Both Republic and Democracy don't use MP's, so they're both similar in that respect. I hope you know about the lux slider, bjfrones. On top of the domestic advisor screen there are 2 sliders. The top one looks like a chemist's bottle; you can move it left or right to devote more or less gold to science. The bottom one is a smiley; that's the lux slider. You can move it left (well, Ok Aabraxan, right then) to make your people happier. That's often better than using entertainers, because an entertainer takes a citizen off your land.

 

[Aabraxan]

. . . . that's the lux slider. You can move it left to make your people happier. . . . .

Move it left to make people happier? Really?

 

[ecuwins]

(in Republic & Democracy)

because more citizens are working, they're generating more commerce. And the extra gold can help you to research techs that you can sell to the AI to make even more money.

(or, support more units)

This right here is key. Learn to generate commerce and unit support is not an issue, even in 2gpt/unitover Republic. In other words - road, road, road everything starting with the best squares.