Switching to Republic

[ravensfire]

In six, short turns, Fanatica will discover the secrets of the Republic, bringing with it a new form of Government - Republic!

Barring something unusual, we will discover this secret in the next turn chat. We need to decide when we switch governments.

During my campaign for Minister of Internal Affairs, I promised to push for a switch immediatly - I'm carrying that out.

Why switch though? After all, we've got a potential war with Egypt coming, and the usual concerns about anarchy. I ask you though, can we afford to NOT switch?

Consider this, we have some fairly large cash reserves, and some large tracts of land that are unsettled. Our cities are small, and in dire need of infrastructure. We have a grand total of 1 (One!) Granary in our country (Vandalay). We are facing incursions from Egypt in the West, and Babylon in the South East. For those who haven't seen a recent screen shot, the city of Mûre is almost totally isolated. The Babylons now have a shot at placing a city SW of Montpellier - giving them a great launch point for a conflict.

Switching immediately to Republic will give us some turns of Anarchy (hopefully 3-5), then we start to grow. We can now effectively use our cash for rushing infrastructure and settlers, helping us to quickly occupy the land we have claimed. Our cities will grow faster, and produce more. The transition will take time, as the change will mean evaluation each city, and altering the labor allocation.

The gains far, far outweigh the risks - we need to switch immediately!

What say you, citizens of Fanatica?

 

[zorven]

Minister-Elect Ravensfire,

You make a compelling argument. My only concern is that war is brought to us, or that we want to bring it to Egypt. Then we are caught with no production capacity. But that is probably a minor concern as we will have to go through that at some point and it might as well be now.

 

[tao]

I also think that we should switch immediately.

As we all know, anarchy will be up to 8 turns. Since we research republic ourselves, we have a "second chance". And this is how:

1. when the science advisor informs us about he discovery of republic, click on "What's the big picture?"
2. click on the Domestic Advisor
3. click on "Despotism" and revolt; the advisor will tell us how many turns of anarchy
4. when we are asked again on whether we want to revolt, we can start a 2nd revolution (out of anarchy)
5. this we should do, if the first revolt led to more than 4? or 5? turns of anarchy
   [/list=1]Of course we optimize our cities to non-riot maximum food by mm.

 

[Krabius]

I am sure that Egypt won't start a war in near future, but Babylon might.

So if we defend our borders with Babylon for 5-6 turns with a good force we can switch to republic without any major problems .

 

[Strider]

I fully support switching to the republic, but we do have a slight complication.

Internal Affairs does not have the jurisidiction to issue the instruction to switch governments.

 

[ravensfire]

Originally posted by Strider
I fully support switching to the republic, but we do have a slight complication.

Internal Affairs does not have the jurisidiction to issue the instruction to switch governments.

You know - I'm not totally sure who does have that authority. From the looks - it's not decided, so perhaps the President.

Either way, the discussion must happen. In your opinion, Strider, who does have this authority?

-- Ravensfire

 

[DaveShack]

Before we get too hot on the trail of switching to Republic, we need to decide if we plan to be mostly warlike or mostly peaceful. If a lot of war is in our future, then it would be foolish to switch into Republic and then take a big hit on WW.

If we are planning to attack someone, and maybe being first to discover Republic, there is also the tactic of trading it to them for a high price, watching until they start their revolution, and then hitting them while in anarchy. Obviously don't try this if the intended victim is religious. It can also be handy to trigger the opponent's GA just as they enter anarchy so a significant amount of it will be wasted.

 

[Strider]

Originally posted by ravensfire


You know - I'm not totally sure who does have that authority. From the looks - it's not decided, so perhaps the President.

Either way, the discussion must happen. In your opinion, Strider, who does have this authority?

-- Ravensfire

I believe that Internal Affairs SHOULD have that authority, but without a judicial review, or any change's, it seems that no one has the authority. We should prolly fix this immediantly.

 

[Civanator]

In past demogames we took a poll of the citizenry and then they decided which government to switch to.

A problem with Republic is the WW, and if we do make an alliance with Greece and/or Babylon against Egypt, we will be at war for 20 turns at the least, which is a fairly long time.

 

[Black_Hole]

whatever we decide, we should have somebody have authority over governments very fast, incase we decide to switch to it next TC

 

[ravensfire]

Regardless of how, or who does this - should we do this?

War weariness is a concern, as is the loss of production during the anarchy period. Do the benefits of Republic outweigh the costs? Should we wait for Monarchy, without knowing when that will appear?

Depotism is a crippling form of government - we need to be out of it. Republic is a good government that will suit us well for some time to come. Right now, I'm not worried about an immediate conflict. Egypt will have to bring any troops over, a slow process at best. Any new cities they found will have limited production ability, and be easy pickings for us.

Babylon is my larger concern. I don't see them as an immediate threat, but one that we'll need to look at in 30 or 40 turns. Right now, their primary force will be bowmen with a few swordsmen. We currently have an average military compared to them. So long as we continue to build some military, we ought to be fine.

Let's switch to Republic as soon as possible, and watch out country grow beyond the other civs.

-- Ravensfire

 

[zorven]

The authority to do change our government rests with Congress. There is no need to start changing any laws.

 

[Strider]

Originally posted by zorven
The authority to do change our government rests with Congress. There is no need to start changing any laws.

Doesn't say so, also the only things that can be done during a turn chat must be down by some "empowered to do so" and within "the limitations of there department."

Code of Laws I.1
I. Legal Instructions
1. A legal instruction is any instruction, posted in the
turn chat instruction thread at least one hour prior
to the start of the turn chat, by a citizen empowered
to do so, within the limitations of the office the
citizen is representing.

We need to amend the constitution before we can swithc governments.

 

[Cyc]

Funny, I remember in the old Civ2 game, when my nation would go into Anarchy. A little dialog box popped up with a picture of the Citizens revolting. It seems to me that it is the Citizens that decide when there is a change in the Government. Seriously, have you ever seen any country write Anarchy into a Constitution? [sarcasm]Article Z - Well, when you people get tired of the way we run this Country, here's the proper way to revolt...[/sarcasm]. I don't think so.

Just have the President or the MIA run a poll to find the will of the people.

 

[tao]

IMHO war weariness is no real problem. I have been at war for 40 or 50 turns. Details on ww can be found in this thread in the War Academy. If you look at the ww causes, they are no big issue if we go to war against Egypt now.

 

[Rik Meleet]

This is a moment in which several important things are about to happen. I mention: Republic comes around (highly tradeable), Revolution is near, The next age dawns on us etc.
These occurences have to be planned properly. We need to discuss what to do when and in what order.

I suggest:
In the preturn - Trade Germany Poly for Republic + lotsa gold. Trade Russia Poly for cash. We, Rus and Ger enter the Middle Ages. Check what techs they have and if we can benefit (not sure how BTW). Upgrade some warriors to sword. Alling buildqueues such that they finish in turn 5 ot 6 (Rep due in 6).

Turn 6: Rep comes in. Choose the tech Germany and/or Russia already have, or a tech people really want. Revolt immediately after checking what our counterparts are up to. This might be time to stop the chat.

Turn X: When the Revolution ends. Optimise cities, check for trades, decide what to research and what our further plans are.

 

[zorven]

Originally posted by Strider

Doesn't say so, also the only things that can be done during a turn chat must be down by some "empowered to do so" and within "the limitations of there department."

We need to amend the constitution before we can swithc governments.

And the Constitution does not say Congress is not empowered to do so. My position is that if the Constitution or supporting laws do not address it, then it is under the jurisdiction of Congress. There are other acts of Congress that do not need to be posted in the Turn Chat Instruction thread (provincial border changes, changes of law that affect the DP, etc), so why must this be? Congress passes an act, and that is the "law" and it is followed.

 

[ravensfire]

Poll posted here.

The status of the poll is dependant upon the ruling by the Judiciary.

-- Ravensfire, Minister of Internal Affairs

 

[ravensfire]

WAR! WAR! WAR!

The foolish Babylon government has taken a forceful stance against us, declaring war when we stood up to their ridiculus demands.

We discover Republic in one turn. The question remains, should we switch over immediately, should we switch after a delay, or should we remain as a Despotism.

If you think that Monarchy is a better option, support the Despotism option and lobby the MoTT to discover Monarchy.

This decision to switch to Republic will be re-polled.

-- Ravensfire, Minister of Internal Affairs

 

[tao]

I very much hope that the citzens of Fanaica don't chicken out of the very good way towards republic. I argue in this post how we can profit from the war and still become a republic asap. Vive la republic!