Tech trading

[Zerzes]

Does anybody else desperately long for an option to turn off tech trading?

I think that trading technologies is far too abused, both by AIs and humans. The (most or even only?) successful strategy of putting 100% income to gold and buy/trade all your techs on difficult levels, is in my opinion somewhat like cheating. It also takes away half the fun and meaning of the game.

How hard can it be for Firaxis to include a rule option in the start up screen where you can turn that off? I have tried to mail this suggestion to them, but without response.

I mean, it should at least be POSSIBLE to play a successful science game on emperor/deity.

 

[Masquerouge]

I agree with you, though I'd rather say it's not tech trading that should be turned off, it's the possibility of doing NO research and still win. My humble suggestion : the price of a technology should be based on your research percentage : the lower it is, the higher you will pay. That would be more realistic. And even, base it on your AVERAGE research percentage, over the last, say, 100 turns. It would allow you to get down a bit on research during war, but not letting it to 0% for too much time.

 

[etj4Eagle]

Originally posted by Masquerouge
I agree with you, though I'd rather say it's not tech trading that should be turned off, it's the possibility of doing NO research and still win. My humble suggestion : the price of a technology should be based on your research percentage : the lower it is, the higher you will pay. That would be more realistic. And even, base it on your AVERAGE research percentage, over the last, say, 100 turns. It would allow you to get down a bit on research during war, but not letting it to 0% for too much time.

In a way it is already, since the price for a tech is based on how many beakers you have left to research. But I see what you are saying. I think what is needed is in the editor an ability to set a premium cost for a tech. Causing that tech to sell at a higher value than just what it beakers would dictate. (useful for techs that give new military units).

 

[bobgote]

i find it's sometimes necessary to play by buying all techs. At least with research you can keep on the cutting edge. And I can say that the other civ's are duly compensated. I don't have any problem with an on/off switch tho, maybe the option that techs can only be traded for other techs? or as a surrender offering?

 

[Masquerouge]

Originally posted by etj4Eagle
In a way it is already, since the price for a tech is based on how many beakers you have left to research. But I see what you are saying.

I kind of mixed up things here
What I wanted to say was : suppose that since the beginning, your science rate was set to zero. If you wanted to buy tech A, it would cost you, say, 1000.
But if from the beginning your science rate was set to 60%, then this same tech would cost you only, say, 400.
Of course, the numbers of it should be made so that a 100% research rate would'nt get you free techs
That way the Pope's strategy would'nt be so powerful.

I like my science efforts to be rewarded.

 

[Zerzes]

Originally posted by bobgote
i find it's sometimes necessary to play by buying all techs. At least with research you can keep on the cutting edge. And I can say that the other civ's are duly compensated. I don't have any problem with an on/off switch tho, maybe the option that techs can only be traded for other techs? or as a surrender offering?

The reason it is necessary to buy techs is because the AI trades internally like crazy. If they weren't allowed to do that you would have a chance to do well on your own. The AI still has the advantage of faster researching on higher difficulty though, so it will probably be more of a challenge to keep up without the ability to trade.

I know some people just want to get to tanks as soon as possible so they can get down to some serious business , for them it is ok to trade their way into modern age before 1000 AD. But I don't want to be forced to do that. I want to play a game of Civilization and not some war scenario game. I enjoy the slow development over time, and above all the feeling that I have worked for my progress rather than bought it

Of course one could make tech trading more difficult/expensive in various ways as some of you have suggested, but a simple on/off switch should be the most appealing choice for Firaxis who has to put time on it. And it is sufficient for me
Besides, unlimited tech trading should still be possible in say team multiplayer games, while in e.g. "ffa" games tech trading will always be abused in some way or another if there is any possibility to do so.

 

[sealman]

Could you still be allowed to steal techs?

I would also like some sort of slider bar or toggle switch that lets you slow down the tech rate. In my past few games, By the time I discover saltpeter and build a road to it, I have riflemen.

I know that the minimun wait to discover a new tech is 4 turns, anyway to change this in the editor?

 

[Zerzes]

Originally posted by sealman
Could you still be allowed to steal techs?

I would also like some sort of slider bar or toggle switch that lets you slow down the tech rate. In my past few games, By the time I discover saltpeter and build a road to it, I have riflemen.

I know that the minimun wait to discover a new tech is 4 turns, anyway to change this in the editor?

Stealing techs should still be ok.

Either you are very slow to get saltpeter, or you are trading techs like crazy. This is the main reason why I want to disable tech trading. Trading your way through an entire era in a few turns is just... a waste of a good game. But I agree that even without any trading salpeter gets obsolete a bit too fast.

You can change the minimum number of turns under the general settings tab when you edit the rules in civ3edit. And you can change the tech rate under the world sizes tab.

 

[sumthinelse]

Originally posted by Zerzes

The reason it is necessary to buy techs is because the AI trades internally like crazy. If they weren't allowed to do that you would have a chance to do well on your own.

If that is the problem you can fix it easily by setiing the AI to AI trade rate to 100 under RULES->DIFFICULTY LEVELS (in the difficulty levels you want to change) in the editor. But of course on 1.21f you have to start a new game to make that take effect.

But you already knew that? Then why would you need to disable tech trading?

 

[NiteCreature]

Isn't this option already there? I believe it's called a trade embargo...

 

[bobgote]

Originally posted by NiteCreature
Isn't this option already there? I believe it's called a trade embargo...

Trade Embargo only applies to the trading of resources and luxuries, believe me, i know. I had an embargo against the romans (still do), and traded for their techs, even with like a 50 gold per turn, it didn't break the embargo agreement, thank god. Because they were at war against everyone, I got 3 techs for my 1, and a bit of gold.

Now at this point, i was in a spot of bother, being militarily weaker than the rest (the first game I got off the ground in monarch). My tax rate was set at 100% so I could pay for treaties etc, and earn my way up to upgrading my hoplites to infantry That's how quick the techs were traded (or the slow rate of my production). Now, I have my rates at 50-50 and am on the cutting edge of technology and have the best ranking civ on points, and becoming one of the most powerful. It was tough, but I'm getting there. You might have noticed that I'm the greeks (scientific) and if even a scientific civ is having trouble here, it might be a problem. Of course it's probably heavily affected by my low experience at this level.

 

[Zerzes]

Originally posted by sumthinelse
If that is the problem you can fix it easily by setiing the AI to AI trade rate to 100 under RULES->DIFFICULTY LEVELS (in the difficulty levels you want to change) in the editor.

I haven't tried that, but I suppose that setting applies to all AI trade? And that is not fair. I only have a problem with trading techs.
It is not solely for myself I want this option either. I can imagine tech trading being widely abused in multiplayer games for example. Some GOTMs without tech trading would be interesting too (even though I don't play them ), maybe we would see some new people doing well then? The bottom line is that research is a corner stone in civ which has been completely removed on higher difficulty levels. I would like to put it back before everything falls apart