Techs and Tech Tree Changes

[PeteAtoms]

I was just thinkin that in CIV4 there should be a lot of different tech tree paths that a player or computer could take, instead of just 3 or 4. I also think that the tech tree should avoid eras and ages, instead of updating the sity graphics at the different era they should update little parts of the civ's city depending on what tech was just researched. I read it somewhere else and i apologize for not knowing who said it but they said something like "I should be able to know that if i drop an object it will fall to the ground via a natural force influencing it and not know that that round object will also provide transportation." My philososphy is that the more techs, the more customized each civ would be throught the course of the game and thus more enjoyable.I can imagine tanks rolling down the hill side by side with archers and knights...

 

[Darksoul_CG]

yes...and can't we remember in the middle ages the difference between britons (with better bows and ships) and the other european countries?i mean there should be more branches of the tech tree

 

[norwegianviking]

Definatly more branches, and maybe seperate branches for each culture group and/or civ?

 

[The homelessguy]

Hey great deleted post man, this is the kinda deleted I imagined to. I c u'v seen my page already and maybe told me it was not possible to read or whatever, but apparently others don't like the idea of revolution to the game. Can't quite figure out Y, being it's a changing world and all, as any change in general is revolution in a small way.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Hmmm, I have suggested similar things to this in other threads on techs. I think techs can be improved in the following ways:

1) Introducing more 'cultural flavour' techs, more gateway techs, more dead-end techs and more techs depended on situation (like terrain and access to resources)

2) Semi-blind research tree. You place a certain proportion of your science budget (light globes) into certain broad 'Categories' of research-like Military, Civic, Scientific, Naval and Economic. The amount you put into a category will influence how frequently you pick up techs in that category-consistent with the era you are in! Obviously some techs might be cross-category! Agricultural-based techs, for instance, may be considered a mix of Science and Civics! The main point, though, is that you can no longer SELECT a specific tech to research UNLESS you have been made aware of it through diplomatic channels.

3) Having Civ Traits and Resource access effect the speed at which you research broad categories, and the chance you discover specific techs within a category. For example, religious, agricultural and expansionist civs would be naturally better at researching Civic Techs, wheras Seafaring and Militaristic civs would be better at Naval technologies. Access to iron would increase the chance of you obtaining any techs which are based around the use of iron-from iron working, to metallurgy to steel!

Anyway, just some thoughts.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Elgalad]

Hey, I like that idea.. Civ Trait influenced tech trees... that's got possibilities!

Another one - What about Civ-specific techs that only one civ can research? They might (possibly) be able to trade these to other techs, but otherwise, there's no way they could learn them on their own. Naturally they'd be dead enders.. and here's where you could put the UU's for each civ, by the way. If England's UU (in civ 4) is the longbowman say, they might be able to teach the Zulu to make them too.. for the right price.

-Elgalad

 

[ThinRedLine]

Hmmm, I have suggested similar things to this in other threads on techs. I think techs can be improved in the following ways:

1) Introducing more 'cultural flavour' techs, more gateway techs, more dead-end techs and more techs depended on situation (like terrain and access to resources)

2) Semi-blind research tree. You place a certain proportion of your science budget (light globes) into certain broad 'Categories' of research-like Military, Civic, Scientific, Naval and Economic. The amount you put into a category will influence how frequently you pick up techs in that category-consistent with the era you are in! Obviously some techs might be cross-category! Agricultural-based techs, for instance, may be considered a mix of Science and Civics! The main point, though, is that you can no longer SELECT a specific tech to research UNLESS you have been made aware of it through diplomatic channels.

3) Having Civ Traits and Resource access effect the speed at which you research broad categories, and the chance you discover specific techs within a category. For example, religious, agricultural and expansionist civs would be naturally better at researching Civic Techs, wheras Seafaring and Militaristic civs would be better at Naval technologies. Access to iron would increase the chance of you obtaining any techs which are based around the use of iron-from iron working, to metallurgy to steel!

Anyway, just some thoughts.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

Thats a great idea, iv seen something like it in Master Of Orion 3, although I fear im the only person on this planet to have actually played it. The tech tree in that is brilliant, its split up into various categories, and each category has various levels and each level has different techs. About 50 sumodd per category i think there are. Each level has a maximum of three seperate advances while some levels have none. The categories themselves are linked so that, say, level 45 Social cannot be researched without level 41 economic being unlocked. Once the levels have been unlocked then the actual practical applications gained from that level can be researched so they may be implemented into your empire. Each race has a wide variety of different techs, meaning that you often fine yourself trading the merculite warhead tech for a spinal mounted ion cannon tech. It sounds more complicated but its really not, each planet produces "test tubes" similar to the commerce which goes to research in Civ. These test tubes can be increased by certain buildings on the planet, similar to the library, uni and research lab improvements.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Hey Elgalad, that is KIND of what Gateway techs are all about, though slightly less restrictive! Basically, it is a tech which is almost IMPOSSIBLE to get unless you are from an appropriate culture group, have appropriate civ traits and/or have appropriate terrain. Once this 'Gateway' tech is gained, however, it opens up a new part of the tech tree which that civ can research just like any other tech!
Hope that makes sense !

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[dh_epic]

I'm a fan of this. I'd like to see real dilemmas -- if you choose this path, you might reach this point faster and have access to these neat ideas that could be transmitted through your country, but if you choose the other path you achieve a whole other set of benefits faster and might never get a chance to reach that idea until the modern era.

I have no idea how tech trading would work, though.

 

[hclass]

Hi dh_epic,

"I have no idea how tech trading would work, though"

You can never have one, it would never work.
Remove it seems to be the best answer!
Otherwise there is no point suggesting ideas on tech or tech tree.

So long if tech trade is there, don't buy Civ4 or any future version.

 

[sealman]

Hi dh_epic,

"I have no idea how tech trading would work, though"

You can never have one, it would never work.
Remove it seems to be the best answer!
Otherwise there is no point suggesting ideas on tech or tech tree.

So long if tech trade is there, don't buy Civ4 or any future version.

what tech trading is an integral part of the entire Civ series. to eliminate it in Civ 4 is just wrong.

Or are we talking about trading the special "civ-specific techs" that this thread has mentioned?

 

[Albow]

get rid of tech trading? what the?? So how did Europe get gunpowder then hummmm ???

and what next, no tech stealing either?

No, i think that tech trading will become even more interesting if there are gateway techs and lots of side branches ...

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

I'm all for keeping tech-trading staying in, myself, but I feel that Gateway techs should be INCREDIBLY valuable to any civ that possesses it, and that if it is an AI civ, they will probably charge an incredibly high price for any gateways they possess-assuming they will give them up at all!! Similarly, if a human player gives up a gateway tech too cheaply, especially to a civ that your people don't like too much, then your people should get VERY incensed-and probably demand your head for it!!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[dh_epic]

I'd like to see multiple paths that get you some places faster, at the expense of slowing down progress in other respects.

I figure you should only be able to trade for techs that are the next on your branches/paths. Meaning that if you turned right (researched Artillery) instead of turning left (researching Education and then the Printing Press and then Artillery) then you wouldn't be able to even Trade for Education or Printing Press until later. The rationale being that you researched more powerful weapons to consolidate your power, preventing your nation from democratizing sooner.

Does this make sense? (Even if it's kind of a contraversial idea?)

 

[PeteAtoms]

I'd like to see multiple paths that get you some places faster, at the expense of slowing down progress in other respects.

I figure you should only be able to trade for techs that are the next on your branches/paths. Meaning that if you turned right (researched Artillery) instead of turning left (researching Education and then the Printing Press and then Artillery) then you wouldn't be able to even Trade for Education or Printing Press until later. The rationale being that you researched more powerful weapons to consolidate your power, preventing your nation from democratizing sooner.

Does this make sense? (Even if it's kind of a contraversial idea?)

It sounds like a good idea to me. I would just like there to be more variation in the branches, i always end up researching the same techs, in the same order, all the time.

 

[mitsho]

I really hate the tech-trade-effect. And that's the thing I want to be abandonned (therefore, when I play, I allow tech-trading only from the Middle ages onwards).

This effect is that by the time, you're empire is built and you would like to start assaulting, you are already half-way through the middle ages. So no chance for a real ancient war. bad...

mfG mitsho

 

[hclass]

Hello mitsho,

"I really hate the tech-trade-effect"
I doubt how good Civ4 can be without removing this stupid idea.

One question that I have yet to (and probably will never) ask the Civ3 game designer, if improving diplomacy is really so crucial, even to the extend of reducing the role of tech research in the game, why not simply remove the need to research tech and let player simply buy every tech when they have collected enough money.

The fun of tech research race is spoiled by the uncontrol trade, every player is forced to check every turn through the most silly inteface ever implemented in computer game (8 circles for 16 players or more, right-click for hidden icons) and ...
I am too tire to keep repeating all the silliness ...

 

[dh_epic]

Yeah, it isn't the best interface. I think we can do better. I'd love to see more genuine choice.

Tech should be more like a labyrinth than a ladder. More like a tree than a race. I'd find that pretty fun.

 

[mitsho]

@hclass, I never said I don't want tech trade. I just want it in another way as it is now in civ3. Slow it down. Otherwise (as in civ3) the ancient age is far to fast over. So, we actually see few ancient wars that are invasion wars (real wars, not only a few units thrown at an enemy). And it's impossible to wage an ancient war against someone, who's not a neighbour of yours.
Therefore I said, slow the tech race down. This way, you also do not end the game in 1500 AD. You know what I mean.
I NEVER said anything else. Tech trade is good. But it has (as higher the difficulty is) this stupid effect.

mfG mitsho

 

[hclass]

Hi mitsho,

I understand your urge to slow down overall tech advances. Like what I 've suggested, the best way to slow it down is to remove tech trade in the game. (Try a mod which disable tech trade, you will see what I mean...even though I 've never made a mod myself

I am sorry I have diff definition for tech race!
I am talking about science research among players (to gain a tech) i.e. put more percentage in science research (build more city imrpovement and so on) in order to win, not through tech trading.