I was curious about what you all think is a good starting site for that first city. You don't want to waste too many turns exploring, right? Are whales better than wheat? Is food and population growth better than trade, or shield production?
Tell us your opening game
- Thread starter Archer 007
- Start date
Archer 007
Rebirth
I would focus on food production as much as possible, as that will allow more cities at more and better sites, which will raise everything in time.
I've played both ways (wander first or found immediately); perhaps due to OCC experience I favor a careful examination of the map before starting to see if there might be a better place to found the first city (which will always be the capital, so it makes a better SSC if possible) nearby. If there are huts within two or three tiles, and some decent specials in the same direction, I think it is worth trying to open them before founding. The most likely outcome seems to be a unit, which will be unsupported. If your first city has not been founded yet getting Advanced Tribes, Barbs and Nomads is suppressed, which increases the odds of the other options.
I personally favor first trying to find a 3 or 4 special spot, preferably with Whales as one of the specials, on a grass tile. When in Despotism the third food from Wheat is not available, but Whales gives you 2 food, 2 shields, and 2 trade (down from 3, also due to Despo). My goal is to get 2 surplus food sheafs and as much trade as possible, followed by as much production as possible. As my explorers pop huts I will probably get some extra units and some extra gold, which I can use to rush some production, so shields is lowest on my list of priorities. Pheasant also gives you two food (down from three) and two shields, but unless it falls on a river it will have no trade, so I would rather a tile that gave at least one trade, even at the expense of a shield.
Another strategy I have heard of but do not favor is founding cities ON particular specials, rather than looking for the sweet spots that span 2, 3 or 4 specials. ICSers seem to use this strategy more often. Because of the automatic Irrigation this strategy makes Buffalo a more worthwhile place to start, but personally I would favor something with extra trade like Spice (very rare to find, though).
I personally favor first trying to find a 3 or 4 special spot, preferably with Whales as one of the specials, on a grass tile. When in Despotism the third food from Wheat is not available, but Whales gives you 2 food, 2 shields, and 2 trade (down from 3, also due to Despo). My goal is to get 2 surplus food sheafs and as much trade as possible, followed by as much production as possible. As my explorers pop huts I will probably get some extra units and some extra gold, which I can use to rush some production, so shields is lowest on my list of priorities. Pheasant also gives you two food (down from three) and two shields, but unless it falls on a river it will have no trade, so I would rather a tile that gave at least one trade, even at the expense of a shield.
Another strategy I have heard of but do not favor is founding cities ON particular specials, rather than looking for the sweet spots that span 2, 3 or 4 specials. ICSers seem to use this strategy more often. Because of the automatic Irrigation this strategy makes Buffalo a more worthwhile place to start, but personally I would favor something with extra trade like Spice (very rare to find, though).
Old n Slow
Emperor
I remember a rule of thumb of no more than three. I think that ten is too long, although Smash would argue that one one can wander & pop huts and never found a city and still win. I would argue that given Smash's credentials, one can.
The other thought is that dropping a quick city should generate a warrior within five turns who can continue searching indefinately.
And keep in mind that for the first fifty turns + you'll only be working a few spaces anyway -- so a grass to found on, two whales to work would be great -- even if there were a bunch of mountains in the remaining spaces.
The other thought is that dropping a quick city should generate a warrior within five turns who can continue searching indefinately.
And keep in mind that for the first fifty turns + you'll only be working a few spaces anyway -- so a grass to found on, two whales to work would be great -- even if there were a bunch of mountains in the remaining spaces.
I dont use a hard and fast rule. I look at the start and the likely huts and specials nearby, and choose based on that whether to settle immediately or head in a particular direction. Specials that are covered by black land are unknown, but you should be able to tell where the Whales are (Star Trek IV: "Keptain, there be whales here!") with a little analysis. I would say that when I cannot find a good place after 4-6 turns (if I'm not sure what I'm heading for) I start thinking about settling for whatever is is closest. The first Barb ship does not spawn until the 16th turn, and then only one at a time, so defense is not an issue. Popping a few huts is worthwhile, because those unsupported units become very valuable when you switch to Republic.
Well here's mine...
1) If the land is good, I will build my first city as soon as possible. If the land is truly dreadful (eg desert etc.), you have to search for something better (or give up and start a new game!!)
2)I never build a city next to a hill. If an enemy pops a good defensive unit on it, it will be extremely difficult to get rid of (except maybe with a catapault if you happen to have one).
If the unit is one with defense and attack eg a Barb archer, you're mincemeat.
3) When starting the game (on Deity), I tend not to bother with phalanxes. I build a warrior first, have a quick look around with it, to uncover any specials, then pop it back in the city before it reaches 2. I research Warrior Code as a matter of high priority.
This is especially important on high or random Barb levels, as I find that Phalanxes are useless at protecting your city. It's unfortunate that Bronze Working is a step on the way to markets and Trade, but at least you don't get wiped out at the start.
4) use warriors to explore, change to horsemen as soon as you can.
5) my next plan differs depending on the land and whether I meet any other civs. If the land is very good, I will try to expand ASAP, then go for the Great Wall.
If I meet a friendly civ, I go down the markets and Trade route.
If I meet a hostile civ very quickly, I have to put expansion plans on hold (unless I wipe them out and nick all their cities of course!)
6) Monarchy as early as possible
7) If you can get a chariot (s) before your opponent has phalanxes/archers you will be able to defeat them easily. Unlikely, but it has happened. It's a key point in the game, much like having Ironclads before your opponents have Musketeers.
The game strategy obviously depends on the land and the civs. Sometimes I decide to experiment by having a vast peaceful trading empire, with incredibly high science, only to find that I live next door to the Mongols....
1) If the land is good, I will build my first city as soon as possible. If the land is truly dreadful (eg desert etc.), you have to search for something better (or give up and start a new game!!)
2)I never build a city next to a hill. If an enemy pops a good defensive unit on it, it will be extremely difficult to get rid of (except maybe with a catapault if you happen to have one).
If the unit is one with defense and attack eg a Barb archer, you're mincemeat.
3) When starting the game (on Deity), I tend not to bother with phalanxes. I build a warrior first, have a quick look around with it, to uncover any specials, then pop it back in the city before it reaches 2. I research Warrior Code as a matter of high priority.
This is especially important on high or random Barb levels, as I find that Phalanxes are useless at protecting your city. It's unfortunate that Bronze Working is a step on the way to markets and Trade, but at least you don't get wiped out at the start.
4) use warriors to explore, change to horsemen as soon as you can.
5) my next plan differs depending on the land and whether I meet any other civs. If the land is very good, I will try to expand ASAP, then go for the Great Wall.
If I meet a friendly civ, I go down the markets and Trade route.
If I meet a hostile civ very quickly, I have to put expansion plans on hold (unless I wipe them out and nick all their cities of course!)
6) Monarchy as early as possible
7) If you can get a chariot (s) before your opponent has phalanxes/archers you will be able to defeat them easily. Unlikely, but it has happened. It's a key point in the game, much like having Ironclads before your opponents have Musketeers.
The game strategy obviously depends on the land and the civs. Sometimes I decide to experiment by having a vast peaceful trading empire, with incredibly high science, only to find that I live next door to the Mongols....
Conan the Barb
Chieftain
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2003
- Messages
- 5
1a.Find a suitable spot for my 1st city, can be my SSC.
1b.Use both settlers to open up huts which r close from starting point.
1c.Entering huts and get some chariots (NONE).
2a.Chariots find site for 2nd city, build with 2nd settler (SSC if capital isn't allready).
2b.Chariots try to enter more huts for more chariots (NONE) b4 1st city is build, I prefer to get an amount of 6 chariots.
3.Both cities start building settlers and a defending units.
4.Chariots explore the area, enter huts looking for monarchy and try to make contact with other civs.
5.City 1 & 2 go on with wonders, colossus in SSC.
6.City number 3 and 4 build also defending units and settlers which work on roads and irrigration between cities.
So while the chariots roam the territory and the settlers work further on, the empire will grow and expand, I do not prefer warriors b/c of their weakness, only for martial law.
1b.Use both settlers to open up huts which r close from starting point.
1c.Entering huts and get some chariots (NONE).
2a.Chariots find site for 2nd city, build with 2nd settler (SSC if capital isn't allready).
2b.Chariots try to enter more huts for more chariots (NONE) b4 1st city is build, I prefer to get an amount of 6 chariots.
3.Both cities start building settlers and a defending units.
4.Chariots explore the area, enter huts looking for monarchy and try to make contact with other civs.
5.City 1 & 2 go on with wonders, colossus in SSC.
6.City number 3 and 4 build also defending units and settlers which work on roads and irrigration between cities.
So while the chariots roam the territory and the settlers work further on, the empire will grow and expand, I do not prefer warriors b/c of their weakness, only for martial law.
MikeLynch
Just a Baker Street Muse
Edit rules.txt so it doesn't.
I did it for Marco Polo's. I never thought it made sense that you could have all these embassies, but then suddenly lose them.Out of curiosity: what tech causes Mike to expire?? I've modified ToT so much I no longer have record of this.
My games start like this:
1) Found capital in first turn if possible, even if the land isn't stellar; second turn if I absolutely must wait. I hate late starts.
2) Churn out two or three warriors, then settlers, settlers, settlers. Rationale: the warriors will likely uncover some hired mercs.
Research goal: Philosophy, then Monarchy immediately thereafter.
3) Fan out and go for goody huts. Found cities in best possible places, reasonably close to, and in a circle around, the capital.
4) Once I have about six cities, start cranking out Wonders in the most productive cities and more Settlers in the rest.
funxus
Orange Cycloptic Blob
It doesn't (at least in 2.42), which is why it's so valuable.
Originally posted by MikeLynch
Edit rules.txt so it doesn't.
Out of curiosity: what tech causes Mike to expire?? I've modified ToT so much I no longer have record of this.
My games start like this:
1) Found capital in first turn if possible, even if the land isn't stellar; second turn if I absolutely must wait. I hate late starts.
2) Churn out two or three warriors, then settlers, settlers, settlers. Rationale: the warriors will likely uncover some hired mercs.
Research goal: Philosophy, then Monarchy immediately thereafter.
3) Fan out and go for goody huts. Found cities in best possible places, reasonably close to, and in a circle around, the capital.
4) Once I have about six cities, start cranking out Wonders in the most productive cities and more Settlers in the rest.
After seeing this and the other modifications you list in the other thread I was just wondering, when you and your friends play basketball, do you still have to dribble and does it count as a basket if the ball goes through the hoop from below?
sethos
no allies
@mardukes
In deity level, you should follow the "official" research route (->monarchy, ->trade).
I always look for a good site in my games and open some huts. I often find some NONE-Units, which are determined for exploration purposes.
The first city I found has at least 2 specials.
The Capital will build some units (for martial law) then it starts a wonder. My 2nd city will also have at least 2 specials. The exploring units often discover advanced tribes, gold, techs (and barbs). I once had 5 cities in 3600 B.C.! This gives you a kick in tech research and wonder building.
In deity level, you should follow the "official" research route (->monarchy, ->trade).
I always look for a good site in my games and open some huts. I often find some NONE-Units, which are determined for exploration purposes.
The first city I found has at least 2 specials.
The Capital will build some units (for martial law) then it starts a wonder. My 2nd city will also have at least 2 specials. The exploring units often discover advanced tribes, gold, techs (and barbs). I once had 5 cities in 3600 B.C.! This gives you a kick in tech research and wonder building.
lord_yoshi
Making fun of you
1) Build Berlin. 1 Phalanx. 2 settlers.
2) Rush tech to Monarchy. Rev.
3) 1 settler to build Munich. 1 Phalanx. 2 setts.
4) 3 setts to upgrade, while city build Libraries and MPs.
----Will attempt Pyramids from now on.
5) 1 sett to build Frankfurt. 1 Phalanx. 1 setts.
6) repeat step 4,5, upgrade to U,SE,BK,and SETI if available.
2) Rush tech to Monarchy. Rev.
3) 1 settler to build Munich. 1 Phalanx. 2 setts.
4) 3 setts to upgrade, while city build Libraries and MPs.
----Will attempt Pyramids from now on.
5) 1 sett to build Frankfurt. 1 Phalanx. 1 setts.
6) repeat step 4,5, upgrade to U,SE,BK,and SETI if available.
Kev
Hired Goon
Athospd: Welcome to the forums here and do not worry about your english. Given the computer 'shorthand' these days, your posts are easier to understand for an older guy like me who's not good with the lingo.
In any case, to stay on topic:
Assuming a normal Deity game for me, I generally stay within this build order:
1. Found a city with settler #1 as soon as I can find a decent spot. City starts a warrior while settler #2 explores a bit. Tech = alphabet, COL, or Cem. Burial - depending on availability and starting techs.
2. During search, pop huts and try to find a spot for SSC. Hope to get a fast scout or two as well. Try to get city #2 built ASAP as well, and if it is not the spot for my SSC then so be it. City #2 starts a warrior.
3. Warrior #1 becomes scout. City #1 starts settler assuming food enough to grow in time.
4. Warrior #2 becomes scout. City #2 starts settler assuming food enough to grow in time.
5. With two scouts, I've hopefully spotted a nice location for SSC. Settler from city #1 will make a road near the city that spawned it and then head to that spot to found SSC. City #1 starts another warrior.
6. Settler from City #2 will build a road near its spawning city and then found city #4. Starts another warrior.
7. At this point, I should have ceremonial burial, so once warrior #2 is finished, I usually start a temple in either city #1 or city #2 (whichever has the better production usually). I will rush its completion whenever I can.
8. With the 'off-tech' that I'm forced to research on my way to Monarchy (usually Bronze Working), I will have the ability to start a wonder. I will start a wonder in the city that has the temple. I'll then send its scouting warrior back. With two warriors and a temple, I can get more workers to produce the wonder I'm going for.
9. With city #3, hopefully the SSC, the build order is slightly different. Here, I'll go with a warrior, then a temple, then start on a wonder. I will try to send another warrior from a nearby city to add to the military happiness. I'll send third warrior from another city if need be as well.
10. Once Monarchy is reached, revolt on first Oedo Year.
11. IPRB whenever and however possible. Saving even a few turns this early in the game can make a huge overall difference.
So basically, other than my SSC, my cities follow a path of warrior, settler, warror, settler, improvement (if necessary - usually temple), settler. There might be some exceptions, but that's usually the way I go. I only go for two wonders in the early game: The Colossus (in the SSC) and the Hanging Gardens (In one of the first two cities - hopefully the capital). Later on, I'll keep with a single warrior if possible.
As you can see, I play HEAVY expansionist, and this assumes a decent amount of land to expand freely. I am thin on my defense with warriors only, but at this stage I am more interested in land-grabbing. Barb attacks are a worry for me, so I try to have some dips around later on as well once I have the tech. Rarely, I cannot bribe the barbs or defeat them, and they take a city on me. I consider this a 'cost of doing business' and will write it off. If they take the city intact, all the better. I'll just go bribe it later on and it will be a cheap way to get the city back, and it usually has some units inside as well. I just have to keep an eye on my wonder cities.
Should I be on a small island or find myself with an agressive neighbor very close by, of course this means a change of strategy. Still, it is imperative for me to get an SCC up in one of my first three cities or else I may lose the Colossus under Deity.
Obtaining pottery is usually a bit of an issue for me. I'll get broze working as my off tech to Monarchy (again, assuming I did not start with it, get it from a hut, or trade for it with a neighbor). This allows for the Phalanx - which is my two-row shiled unit for rush buying. Further, I deem the Colossus for my SSC more important than the Hanging Gardens at this level. Still, I want the HG, so I have to make sure I get pottery at some point. Right after Monarchy, I usually set a path toward philosophy and/or monotheism (with trade in there somewhere). Taking a detour to pottery is sometimes bothersome, and I sometimes forget that I have two cities building the Colossus.
With military, I will try to stay peaceful, but if there is a neighbor nearby I will certainly try to take advantage when I can. If I have elephants or crusaders available to me and that neighbor does not have feudalism, I will devote some time and resources to taking them over completely. Expansion by military can be just as efficient and sometimes even more so when compared to settler building - although the AI city placements can be quite suspect.
The events in the early game can have a huge effect on what happens in your mid and late game, so it's pretty important, in my expansionist play at least, to slap down those cities and start the settler brigade. With two cities done early, my cities can grow exponentially. In my mind, wandering about for more than a few turns costs more in lost science and production. I'm not all that worried about having NONE units to start. I'll be in a Monarchy soon enough and can support three units without penalty anyway. Later on, I can have the unit supported by an outlying city if necessary. Often, as others have said, if I get a NONE settler from a hut, I'll build a city with it as well. I can still get another NONE settler later on, and I can now increase my city base and the rate I am building settlers. Fun.
Think - would you rather have one city at size 8 or 8 cities at size 1?
With the city at size 8, you have 8 workers in the field and one on the city location - 9 workers in essence.
With 8 size 1 cities, you have 8 total workers in the field PLUS 8 working the city locations - that's 16 workers in all. It's a pretty big difference.
There are some very skilled players at Deity level who will go the whole game without building a temple in cities or who hit an early republic and can have the tech tree done by the 1700's and earlier. I'd like to see some of those builds.
OK, I can't beleive you've read to the end of this post. Hope you weren't too bored.
In any case, to stay on topic:
Assuming a normal Deity game for me, I generally stay within this build order:
1. Found a city with settler #1 as soon as I can find a decent spot. City starts a warrior while settler #2 explores a bit. Tech = alphabet, COL, or Cem. Burial - depending on availability and starting techs.
2. During search, pop huts and try to find a spot for SSC. Hope to get a fast scout or two as well. Try to get city #2 built ASAP as well, and if it is not the spot for my SSC then so be it. City #2 starts a warrior.
3. Warrior #1 becomes scout. City #1 starts settler assuming food enough to grow in time.
4. Warrior #2 becomes scout. City #2 starts settler assuming food enough to grow in time.
5. With two scouts, I've hopefully spotted a nice location for SSC. Settler from city #1 will make a road near the city that spawned it and then head to that spot to found SSC. City #1 starts another warrior.
6. Settler from City #2 will build a road near its spawning city and then found city #4. Starts another warrior.
7. At this point, I should have ceremonial burial, so once warrior #2 is finished, I usually start a temple in either city #1 or city #2 (whichever has the better production usually). I will rush its completion whenever I can.
8. With the 'off-tech' that I'm forced to research on my way to Monarchy (usually Bronze Working), I will have the ability to start a wonder. I will start a wonder in the city that has the temple. I'll then send its scouting warrior back. With two warriors and a temple, I can get more workers to produce the wonder I'm going for.
9. With city #3, hopefully the SSC, the build order is slightly different. Here, I'll go with a warrior, then a temple, then start on a wonder. I will try to send another warrior from a nearby city to add to the military happiness. I'll send third warrior from another city if need be as well.
10. Once Monarchy is reached, revolt on first Oedo Year.
11. IPRB whenever and however possible. Saving even a few turns this early in the game can make a huge overall difference.
So basically, other than my SSC, my cities follow a path of warrior, settler, warror, settler, improvement (if necessary - usually temple), settler. There might be some exceptions, but that's usually the way I go. I only go for two wonders in the early game: The Colossus (in the SSC) and the Hanging Gardens (In one of the first two cities - hopefully the capital). Later on, I'll keep with a single warrior if possible.
As you can see, I play HEAVY expansionist, and this assumes a decent amount of land to expand freely. I am thin on my defense with warriors only, but at this stage I am more interested in land-grabbing. Barb attacks are a worry for me, so I try to have some dips around later on as well once I have the tech. Rarely, I cannot bribe the barbs or defeat them, and they take a city on me. I consider this a 'cost of doing business' and will write it off. If they take the city intact, all the better. I'll just go bribe it later on and it will be a cheap way to get the city back, and it usually has some units inside as well. I just have to keep an eye on my wonder cities.
Should I be on a small island or find myself with an agressive neighbor very close by, of course this means a change of strategy. Still, it is imperative for me to get an SCC up in one of my first three cities or else I may lose the Colossus under Deity.
Obtaining pottery is usually a bit of an issue for me. I'll get broze working as my off tech to Monarchy (again, assuming I did not start with it, get it from a hut, or trade for it with a neighbor). This allows for the Phalanx - which is my two-row shiled unit for rush buying. Further, I deem the Colossus for my SSC more important than the Hanging Gardens at this level. Still, I want the HG, so I have to make sure I get pottery at some point. Right after Monarchy, I usually set a path toward philosophy and/or monotheism (with trade in there somewhere). Taking a detour to pottery is sometimes bothersome, and I sometimes forget that I have two cities building the Colossus.
With military, I will try to stay peaceful, but if there is a neighbor nearby I will certainly try to take advantage when I can. If I have elephants or crusaders available to me and that neighbor does not have feudalism, I will devote some time and resources to taking them over completely. Expansion by military can be just as efficient and sometimes even more so when compared to settler building - although the AI city placements can be quite suspect.
The events in the early game can have a huge effect on what happens in your mid and late game, so it's pretty important, in my expansionist play at least, to slap down those cities and start the settler brigade. With two cities done early, my cities can grow exponentially. In my mind, wandering about for more than a few turns costs more in lost science and production. I'm not all that worried about having NONE units to start. I'll be in a Monarchy soon enough and can support three units without penalty anyway. Later on, I can have the unit supported by an outlying city if necessary. Often, as others have said, if I get a NONE settler from a hut, I'll build a city with it as well. I can still get another NONE settler later on, and I can now increase my city base and the rate I am building settlers. Fun.
Think - would you rather have one city at size 8 or 8 cities at size 1?
With the city at size 8, you have 8 workers in the field and one on the city location - 9 workers in essence.
With 8 size 1 cities, you have 8 total workers in the field PLUS 8 working the city locations - that's 16 workers in all. It's a pretty big difference.
There are some very skilled players at Deity level who will go the whole game without building a temple in cities or who hit an early republic and can have the tech tree done by the 1700's and earlier. I'd like to see some of those builds.
OK, I can't beleive you've read to the end of this post. Hope you weren't too bored.
Kev
Hired Goon
Actually, I have not ElephantU. I'll have to check it out.
I should have put in my last post above the caveat that this is my own style. Some like to play militaristic and crunch people. Others like to be perfectionist and have fewer, more wondrous cities. Still others, myself included, like to do variations including playing with only a single city or (as ElephantU pointed out) trying to land their spaceship at silly ancient dates and the like. Whatever is fun for you should be your true guide.
I sound so touchy-feely...
I should have put in my last post above the caveat that this is my own style. Some like to play militaristic and crunch people. Others like to be perfectionist and have fewer, more wondrous cities. Still others, myself included, like to do variations including playing with only a single city or (as ElephantU pointed out) trying to land their spaceship at silly ancient dates and the like. Whatever is fun for you should be your true guide.
I sound so touchy-feely...
blackthorn
Black ship of dispair
I have no set way of beginning a game except,I will always build my first city right away ,then I let the game take me away,adjusting things as I go.
Early Republic,Trade,SSC. That is the only thing that usually does not need "adjustment".
Early Republic,Trade,SSC. That is the only thing that usually does not need "adjustment".
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