Term 1 President : The Great Experiment Begins

[ravensfire]

Worst case, DS reappoints donsig as VP. Life goes on.

Provo - relax - there is no malicious intent here.

-- Ravensfire

 

[Provolution]

Worst case, DZ reappoints donsig as VP. Life goes on.

Provo - relax - there is no malicious intent here.

-- Ravensfire

Ravensfire, DZ is not the president and cannot reappoint anyone.

 

[mhcarver]

Provo you knew he meant DS just as well as everyone else, it won't kill you to quiet down for a while and then file your JR, it's not like this will cause the gov't to collapse if it isn't ruled on immediately

 

[Provolution]

Well, with no citizen partipation in the Judiciary, we would get poorer laws and poorer application of the laws, I will not let a blind eye to the legal handling this game, but do my best to perfect the system and the laws. I also do this to make the game more accessible and fair to all of the citizens.

 

[ravensfire]

Provo you knew he meant DS just as well as everyone else, it won't kill you to quiet down for a while and then file your JR, it's not like this will cause the gov't to collapse if it isn't ruled on immediately

DOH! Touch-typing miscue!

My apologies to DS and DZ!

Yes, DS is who I meant.

-- Ravensfire

 

[ravensfire]

Well, with no citizen partipation in the Judiciary, we would get poorer laws and poorer application of the laws, I will not let a blind eye to the legal handling this game, but do my best to perfect the system and the laws. I also do this to make the game more accessible and fair to all of the citizens.

Provo - a much nicer way to handle this would have been a simple - "Hey, donsig, I noticed you hadn't registered as a citizen yet. Could you do that real quick?"

Problem solved. The courts should not be the first way to handle every single problem. Respect your fellow citizens, of which donsig is most definitely one.

-- Ravensfire

 

[Ginger_Ale]

, ravensfire. Exactly what should be done.

 

[Provolution]

Provo - a much nicer way to handle this would have been a simple - "Hey, donsig, I noticed you hadn't registered as a citizen yet. Could you do that real quick?"

Problem solved. The courts should not be the first way to handle every single problem. Respect your fellow citizens, of which donsig is most definitely one.

-- Ravensfire

Sorry, I realized this past the election, and I have a bad record with PMs, as several so-called leading citizens have not responded to my justified and well founded PMs. I also see that several of said prominent citizens would rather use namecalling or verbal traps than PMs to help out my proposals or statements, in fact, I have only seen DS, Cyc, MhCarver, Rik and a couple of others respect my PMs continuously. However,I am pointing out a very serious flaw in the constitution, and I am all fine with Donsig signing up, and have a consular vote AND a public approval poll. In fact, I support Donsig as well among all the candidates, but I want the process to be done right.

Also, respecting fellow citizensis a two way venue. Several candidates for VP (myself not included) were not selected in spite of registry issues. As this was a contested position, fair play and procedure is essential. I also know that comraderie among all timers is prevalent, and hard to handle with reference to integrity, accountability, equal treatment and respect for the mechanisms that make this a democracy simulation, in which signing up before elections is essential. I see people posting 2 minutes after the nomination threads are closed are not eligible for election, I see harsh Draconian measures meted out by a vigilant Judiciary in order to balance out key laws, rules and regulations. I also do see cronyism in handling these laws, and find it very interesting how real life dynamics manifests itself in the forums as well. I am sorry, but I will not make life easy just to be easy, but to
hammer down the laws and application of said laws in the most objective, fair , transparent and law and time abiding manner possible.

Sorry I do not want a Bartertown community as seen in Mad MAsx, but someone got to watch the procedures.

I also noted people hammering people voting in the polls not seen in the citizen registry. Becoming a non citizen VP is way way worse than a non-citizen voting in a poll. I will point this out to people, and you got basically five choices.

1. Discredit me through flames, trolling and the usual Kafka-machine, try to contain me to make the case fizzle out and forget all about it. However, this method is risky, as I will be very loose on triggering the report button..

2. Suspend the VP position for a mid term Consular vote and then run a citizen approval poll per constitution (citizenship required)

3. Write into the constitution that non-citizens may run for office, and face the consequences later on.

4. Recognize the problem, and find cooperative and creative ways to solve it outside the constitution.

5. Make a full JR to reestablish trust in the system and correct all of the black holes in the constitution. Then run approval polls on amendments AND the appointment of the new VP.

Finally, I do not like the attitude that pursuing legitimacy in the system is oonsidered being a troublemaking act, especially in such a sensitive, fundamental issue on the very basics of the DG, citizenship, elected positions,
equality to the law, the right to information and the right to participate.
Of course you like it comfortable, and dislike questioning the quality, integrity and equality of the worked out laws, and the fair application of it,

I am also most certain I would get a trace of forum pirhanas if I ever went outside my mandates and legal authorities. I also see a clear lack of intent to cooperate from the Judiciary.

 

[DaveShack]

Wow, a guy takes a few hours away from the computer for a kid's birthday party and all hades breaks loose...

There is no conspiracy, and for my part of the situation donsig not being in the registry is at most an oversight. I can't speak to his part of the situation.

On the legality of the appointment, we have had cases of nominations being accepted by non-registered people, and typically the problem is resolved by having that person register. Nominations have to be explicitly accepte in public. Likewise this same principle should be used for appointments. I will set a 24 hour time for donsig to register and accept the appointment, after which the appointment must be assumed to be unaccepted, and a new candidate will be chosen.

There were three candidates who applied via PM. The choice was a very difficult one because all three are unable to serve as DP at present (don't have Conquests) and have somewhat similar interests. I had written draft appointment announcements for all three at various times. I finally decided on donsig because his interest in making sure that citizens have full information in the forum coincided with one of the things I was hoping a vice president could do.

Provolution, you had a better mechanism of challenging this appointment at your disposal. Just post an approval poll "do you approve of this appointment Y/N/A?", private, and 48 hour duration.

 

[Provolution]

Daveshack, thank you for letting me know about the other option, but Iam not after you Daveshack or Donsig. All I want to do is for us to get Donsig in Mid Term 15 March, and let the Consuls approve him in an orderly fashion. That would require less hassle.
My main target with all this is to patch up the Constitution, and I do so in a very direct fashion. I want no collateral damage from this, merely to patch up the black holes in the constitution.

Daveshackl, besides, your 24 hours past the nomination already passed, no acceptance was made in the duration of 24 hours. So you need to renominate someone. In fact, I would nominate Tim Bentley for the job.

 

[Provolution]

I am pleased to announce the appointment of Donsig as Vice President.

To all the candidates, thank you very much for your interest in this position. It was a very difficult choice, I started writing this post several different times, and had written in each of the candidates at one point or another.

March 02. 05.19. AM CET.

Now, 24 hours following this date.... is March 03. 05.19. AM CET

We are now at March 07- 04.39. Soon exactly four days have passed since the VP shouldhave publicly accepted the appointment thread. In fact, we have a separate appointment thread. .

 

[DaveShack]

March 02. 05.19. AM CET.

Now, 24 hours following this date.... is March 03. 05.19. AM CET

We are now at March 07- 04.39. Soon exactly four days have passed since the VP shouldhave publicly accepted the appointment thread. In fact, we have a separate appointment thread. .

Umm, if we had a rule requiring appointments to be accepted within 24 hours, which we don't, it would merely give the appointer the ability to withdraw the appointment. It would not mandate the appointment be withdrawn. At present, we don't even have a rule which mandates a VP must be appointed.

I'm using a 24 hour period starting when it was brought to my attention that the appointment would be invalid. In the absense of applicable law, the President needs to act decisively, but fairly.

 

[Provolution]

DS

I found more wisdom in your handling of the dilemma, which others tried to ignore or minimize, but Donsig has not posted for a long while, and VP is quite important.
24 hours i fair, but does not omit the fact we need to pass an amendment on appointments, citizenship and deadlines, as well as back up solutions.

 

[Ginger_Ale]

I have 1 hour to prepare for an additional 10 turns that I learned would be held today. Great.

Next time DS, if you plan to do this, please give us more notice time!!

 

[Black_Hole]

Mr. President,
JR#1 has been completed, you may now reappoint donsig(who has registered) to the position of Vice President, if you so desire.

The Office of the Chief Justice

 

[blackheart]

I'm still available to be VP *hint hint*

 

[Strider]

hmm... Daveshack, may I recommend Donsig for the Vice Presidential poistion?

 

[Provolution]

I also Recommend Nobody and Donsig and Blackheart

And may no one forget the Citizen Registry again.

 

[Black_Hole]

hmm... Daveshack, may I recommend Donsig for the Vice Presidential poistion?

didnt see that one coming

 

[Provolution]

Now, I wonder, if it was a very hard choice then, is it an easier choice now ?